by Christ Alone 317 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I am a person of faith but it is hard for me to understand how can God know our future if the future has not happened? How can I be guilty of a sin, crime, bad thing etc. and God just sits there and does nothing to prevent my eternal damnation.
I don’t know, but the more of think of this, either God can foresee the future or he can’t.
I am a person of faith but it is hard for me to understand how can God know our future if the future has not happened? How can I be guilty of a sin, crime, bad thing etc. and God just sits there and does nothing to prevent my eternal damnation.
Yes, God does NOT interfer in our day-to-day lives and decisions -the whole free will thing.
I don’t know, but the more of think of this, either God can foresee the future or he can’t.
There aremany views on this matter, I am incilned to believe in this one:
God can foresee/does know all possible choices to any given situation, He knows what we will do or decide regadless of which choice we make because He knows all choices we can make. In all practical terms (for our ability to understand) God knows all because He knows all that can be know at any given moment.
Your argument makes about as much sense as torturing and killing puppies to make blankets for orphans.
I didn't make an argument. I asked a question that you did not answer, and then I commented on something. My question is still there.
As well, those I asked to show me how knowing someone's choice means that someone has no free will, have not responded to this question either.
Peace,
tammy
Foreknowledge implies that there is only one outcome (whether God "chooses" to see it or not is irrelevant, the outcome is there, should he wish to see it).
This implication removes free will. We don't have a choice if it's already "written".
This was one of my husband's HUGE issues with the WTBTS's explanation of foreknowledge while we were still believers. The foreknowledge explanation resembles the teaching of predestination.
God can foresee/does know all possible choices to any given situation, He knows what we will do or decide regadless of which choice we make because He knows all choices we can make.
If God already know what choices we will make and there is zero percent chance we could ever decide anything else, then it was never choice to begin with.
As well, those I asked to show me how knowing someone's choice means that someone has no free will, have not responded to this question either.
Choice means that I can decide chocolate or vanilla. I am very fond of both (ladies, take note....). If God, before I was born, sees the future and know on which occasions I will have chocolate and which I will have vanilla and there is ZERO percent chance I could do anything else, how is it a choice? It's set in stone because God knows and God's knowledge means it MUST happen. OTOH, if, as in your example of your child....you say you "know", but that is not foreknowledge in same sense God would have, that's an educated guess because there some percent of the time that you will be surprised, that your "knowledge" will not be true.
Well said.
Choice means that I can decide chocolate or vanilla. I am very fond of both (ladies, take note....).
You can choose either.
If God, before I was born, sees the future and know on which occasions I will have chocolate and which I will have vanilla and there is ZERO percent chance I could do anything else, how is it a choice?
Assuming chocolate and vanilla are representations of bigger things.... you still have a choice. Just because he knows what you will choose, does not mean you did not have the choice to choose it.
You tell me how it takes away from your choice.
It's set in stone because God knows and God's knowledge means it MUST happen.
No, I don't think it is set in stone.
Christ did not have to give up his life (in the flesh). He could have chosen otherwise, and He even prayed for something else if possible. But He chose to do the will of His Father.
God knew HIM, and so God knew (had faith in) what His Son would do.
OTOH, if, as in your example of your child....you say you "know", but that is not foreknowledge in same sense
God would have, that's an educated guess because there some percent of the time that you will be surprised, that your "knowledge" will not be true.
Then we are arguing apples and oranges.
Mine is an educated guess based on what I know of my son. Me being right doesn't take away from his free will.
God being right... also does not take away from our free will.
Maybe it is those who belong to Him - through his son - whom he knows best.
But regardless, his perspective (his sight and knowing) is far larger than ours. And even we can see (to some degree... depending upon the situation) when someone's bad choices are going to play out badly for them.
So I still do not understand how you can state that knowing someone well enough to know their choice, takes away their freedom to make that choice.
Peace,
tammy
Perhaps the problem with this discussion is a lack of consensus as to what God actually is. There seems to be an acceptance that God is somewhere out there sitting on his asteroid watching us and knowing everything we are about to do, even before we are born; but he can’t be bothered to stop bad things happening.
My God would be a part of everything that exists. There would be no God versus us, just a collective universal reality that is not separated. All that happens in the universe is God. Everything in the universe, whether visible to human eyes or invisible, is energy vibrating at differing speeds. Science is just beginning to comprehend how un-solid all matter is and that all that exists is energy.
For me the word God is rather redundant because it is contaminated by being used for so many thousands of years to describe an entity with fixed ideas, rules, plans and rewards to those who are faithful to a particular creed.
Does the energy that IS the universe have foreknowledge that takes away our free will? To do that it would have to have a will of its own. In which case it would not be God but an individual entity that seeks to manipulate energy to its own advantage. That sounds more like a devil than God.
Sam Harris on Free Will.
A bit long and takes a bit to get started but well worth the time, In my opinion.
Especially when you consider what the subject matter.
Will you be a Critical thinker and spend the time to view these thoughts or will you look for confirmation of your bias?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCofmZlC72g
Wish I knew how to imbed, looked it up on here but still could not make it work.
NJY
Assuming chocolate and vanilla are representations of bigger things.... you still have a choice. Just because he knows what you will choose, does not mean you did not have the choice to choose it.
No, it represents ice cream....If God has already foreseen it and it is set in stone, then there is no way I have choice. It is already set.
Then we are arguing apples and oranges.
You are putting an apple in a bag (knowing for you meaning educated guess) and an orange in a bag (knowing for God meaning it must happen as he has foreseen it) and calling it a banana that someone can choose freely.
