good old apocalyptic science fiction

by Hortensia 41 Replies latest social entertainment

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  james_woods

  I remember my dad used to talk about such devices. In my day (my heyday), it was the nuetron bomb that caused a stir. Although it was not intended for such longlasting radioactive effects. It was more intended to even the 'playing field' of Western Europe. In the 70s (in my military days), we used to war game against the Soviets expecting a single US brigade to have to go up against 3 armored Warsaw Pact divisions. Everyone quietly expected it to go nuclear within days, if not sooner - if it ever happened.

  I have a book written during the era "Soviet Military Strategy" - and the scenario was at least a 3 to 1 Russian advantage in ground forces which WOULD only have been stoppable with tactical nuclear weapons. Western strategy was to try to build tanks that were 3 times better than the Warsaw Pact 3x advantage in numbers - but nobody really believed they could stop the East conventionally.

  The Soviets, on the other hand, were pretty certain to have been planning the use of their own tactical nukes ahead of their attack to open up the lines.

  Nobody could figure out if such a scenario could have been played out without one side or the other resorting to the big ICBMs - i.e. New York/Moscow.

  BTW - what the heck was a "Cobalt Bomb" supposed to be in On The Beach?
• 

  Bobcat

  BTW - what the heck was a "Cobalt Bomb" supposed to be in On The Beach?

  I'm relying on memory (sometimes faulty), but if I remember, the On The Beach movie opens up with a brief description of 'what happened.' And then the movie plays out in the time afterward. So if there is a mention of Cobalt Bombs it would probably be in the earlier moments of the movie. I think the storyline has it that the Northern Hemisphere is already poisoned and the radioactivity is slowly circulating southward towards Australia or New Zealand (can't remember which).

  The "cobalt bomb" was supposedly designed for long term radiation effects. As the Wiki link shows, they never built any. It was a theoretical design. But I can see now that the movie played on the fears of it. "Alas Babylon" played on the fears of the H-Bomb. The timelines of the movies/books suggest that Hollywood keeps up with the latest threats.

  Soviet propaganda went into high gear against the neutron bomb also. And for good reason. But there was always the question of whether it would matter. Each side would view a nuke as a nuke, regardless of the effects. And the first use would open 'pandora's box.'

  Its interesting that the idea of 'fail safe' goes into reverse once the war starts. Once it starts, or is about to start, all the safeguards to prevent it come off, and (in the military mindset) it is 'use it or lose it.' "The Day After" movie made some effort to portray that sort of 'war inertia,' with each side escalating, while still talking of ending hostilities.

  I wonder if that has changed in recent years. When the earth was divided into two camps, everybody was on one side or the other. It seemed like the prevailing notion was that once nukes were used, it would inevitably escalate. Now they more openly talk of a first use w/o the expected escalation. Maybe they are just fooling themselves.

  On another note, the idea of 'nuclear winter' became the expected after effect of a nuclear war sometime in the late 70s or early 80s. Movies made since then seem to feature that, rather than the idea of radiation overdose as in On The Beach.

  And since were talking of apocalyptic Books/Films, the book "Triumph" was another one that featured enhanced radiation weapons, used with the idea of poisoning the 'enemy.'
• 

  Bobcat

  The Soviets, on the other hand, were pretty certain to have been planning the use of their own tactical nukes ahead of their attack to open up the lines.

  This may have been. But we were more expecting heavy use of gas ('nerve' mostly) in the initial/opening stages (of a thrust into Western Europe). The Soviets were very much loaded down with protective equipment compared with the West. Gas use, at least in some minds, had the notion of not crossing the ultimate threshold.

  Somehow we (mankind) survived those days.

  A little diversion to remember why we don't want that scenario:

  here

  here
• 

  james_woods

  There was a lot of attention paid to the so-called C-B-R (Chemical/Biological/Radiological) shielding and protection of the tanks and other vehicles. We believed we had the better systems because the tank crew did not have to wear masks inside the vehicle.

  Without saying who would use what first, it was pretty much a NATO foregone conclusion that tactical nukes would be in use by both sides once the first one went off.

  I guess that from the Russian viewpoint, it was more a question of whether we would try to take Hungary, Poland, and Yugoslavia than it was whether they would try to take W. Germany.

  But it is my opinion that they WOULD have taken Western Europe right up to the seashores of France if it had not been for the tactical nuclear standoff - up until the Reagan bluff ended it all.
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  Bobcat

  Agreed. By the way, have you ever read the book, "Reagan's War" (Peter Schweitzer)?
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  Hortensia

  As a school kid in the 50s and 60s, we were surrounded by that fear. Duck and cover practice in the classroom, as if ducking under a desk would save us from the atomic bomb!
• 

  PaintedToeNail

  As a small child, I watched 'Omega Man', it was very scary for a little kid. An epidemic changes all human into diseased beings who can only go out at night, only the main character, played by Charleton Heston, isn't infected. The beings all try to find and kill him at night. During the day, he scavenges for things to live. The movie was remade in 2007 and starred Will Smith, it was titled 'I Am Legend'. It was creepy too.
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  james_woods

  Agreed. By the way, have you ever read the book, "Reagan's War" (Peter Schweitzer)?

  No, I have not Bobcat. I may look for that the next time I pick up political history books at the library.

  Another one along this line is "The Cold War as History" - I don't have the author at hand here at the office.
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  Bobcat

  James:

  Your comment about 'Reagan's bluff' reminded me of this book. The text mostly centers around Reagan's role in causing the Soviet Empire to collapse. I found it very interesting. With regard to your mentioning of a 'bluff,' the book says that to Reagan, it wasn't "the bomb" that was the problem, but 'fear of the bomb.' It said he felt that if the West stood up to the Soviets, they would back down, much like a bully would when his victim stands up to him.

  Here is an Amazon link.

  And here is a Wikipedia link. (I didn't realize it had been made into a movie.)

  On the topic of the thread (for anyone):

  I found the movie, Melancholia to be very interesting. It is available on Netflix (and I imagine other services). It is somewhat of a mindbender until you figure out what is happening in the first half of the movie. I hate to give anymore of the plot away, although I will say it is of a similar genre of "When Worlds Collide." But the coming collision is just a backdrop for the human interaction.
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  glenster

  feature
  "Mad Max 2: The Road Warrior"
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmf-HCCZYOg

  feature
  "Children of Men"
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJivXSErhB8

  "The Day of the Triffids," 1962
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=or3ygBd56gg

  "A Boy & His Dog," 1976
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh7PYGV-PKc