Loyalty Questions in Judicial Hearings (page 2)

tec

In Ray's video, he was asked if he still believed that the wts was God's spirit-directed organization (or something along those lines). So the loyalty question would be if you submit to their headship, wouldn't it?

Peace,

tammy

zoiks

00DAD, this question came up at a non-JC meeting with two elders after I expressed doubts and before my fade. Interstingly, it looked as though the COBE had some printed material that he was getting his questions from. Perhaps he was only looking at his own notes, I don't know. The question was along the lines of, "Do you feel that JWs are the true religion", or perhaps "Do you feel that Jehovah is using this organization to teach the truth". Something like that, I can't remember the exact wording.

I remarked that it was a loaded question, and he agreed.

Sorry that I can't provide more insight.

J. Hofer

actually this is a pretty common question when you start to share some doubts. when i started to miss meetings, that was the first question my mom asked me: "but you do still believe in the FDS, don't you?". it's what this religion is about, so it should be pretty common and expected.

flipper

00DAD- I was asked the question at one of my several JC meetings " Do you still believe this is God's organization ? " And I just answered " yes, of course ", ( then quickly changed the subject and moved on to ) " but I still have doubts and have been hurt and stumbled by injustices committed. " Of course I did this to protect myself from being DFed so as not to lose my relationship with elderly JW parents . Of course I don't believe it's God's organization- but you have to engage in Theocratic warfare and play dirty with them if you want to preserve relationships inside the organization still. I have lots of JW relatives still ( including JW daughters I'm trying to reach ) so a person's gotta do what they gotta do

Phizzy

It isn't just in JC meetings, I had the "two Elder" visit , "we want to encourage you", so officially just a shepherding call on an inactive one who also did not attend Meetings, for 6 months or so.

Several times in several ways one Eder persistently asked me if I believed it was God's Organization, (or similar). Having been forewarned on here that I should expect those type of questions I fended them off, changed the subject, and one time, just let the question hang in the air, until the other Elder did as I expected and leapt in to fill the silence.

You only have to answer that type of question wrongly and you are toast.

I do not believe the Elder who kept on with the loyalty questions was doing this by his own inspiration, they have been urged and trained to do so, once they have a"wrong" answer they do not need to listen to you any more.

Be careful people ! They are never out to help you, they are there to trap you.

wha happened?

You only have to answer that type of question wrongly and you are toast.

Nice, either lie or accept their judgement

00DAD

Thanks all for your comments and experiences.

J. Hofer, you nailed the reference in the STFOG book alright. But it makes sense that the elders would ask THEMSELVES this question concerning "Those Who Have Not Associated for Many Years". The book does NOT instruct the elders to come right out and ask the individual this question. Although I could see that they might IF the talk to someone that hasn't associated in many years. It seems like a natural enough question in those circumstances, not particularly sinister in and of itself as it would be when asked routinely of ANYONE called before a JC.

Oddly, that same section in the STFOG book has this curiously contradictory question:

Does the person have a measure of contact or association with the congregation so that a leavening, or corrupting influence exists?

How on earth could "Those Who Have Not Associated for Many Years" also "have a measure of contact or association with the congregation"??? They're mutually exclusive. Do the people that write these books read them? Apparently not. There is only three sentences separating these two phrases.

tec, well it makes sense that they would ask RayPublisher that kind of question. He is openly an apostate. I realize that of the dozens of JC I was involved with not one was concerning allegations of apostasy. On the other hand, it seems that many here has related that they or poeple they knew were asked these questions in JC that did not concern apostasy. That is the sinister aspect of it that bothers me. (Yeah, I know, just one more thing about JWs to find fault with, what a surprise!)

zoiks, similar to what I wrote to tec above, I could see the elders asking someone that expresses doubts this kind of question. On one hand it seems the natural, logical question. But if you think about, asking the question seems to belie a lack of understanding about the very nature of doubts. If you have doubts about doctrine it naturally follows that you would question the credibility of those that are the source of those doctrines.

Still, merely having doubts is not officially a DFing offense, at least not yet.

flipper, OK this is what I want to get at. I know enough of your story to know that by asking you this question the elders were asking about things totally unrelated to why they allegedly thought you should be called before a JC. Why would they do that? It's just wrong!

BTW, I totally appreciated your other comments about using TW strategy against them.

Phizzy, thanks for sharing your experience. Right on target! Again, asking someone that is inactive Loyalty Questions is really disturbing. It shows an underlying distrust of the motives of others and an obsessive need for blind obedience and control.

You said, " I do not believe the Elder who kept on with the loyalty questions was doing this by his own inspiration, they have been urged and trained to do so ". I absolutely believe that is your perception. In fact, the comments of MANY on this forum show that it is the perception held by a large number of JWs and ex-JWs.

But in the roughly two decades I was an elder I cannot recall a single instance where we were formally and directly, either verbally or in writing, instructed to routinely ask these questions. It is particularly disturbing that so many on this forum have attested to being asked these types of questions when their particular issue was unrelated to doubts, apostasy or even being MIA for "many years"!

wha happened? - Nice, either lie or accept their judgement

Apparently!

trujw

My was along the same lines. Do you believe that this is god's spirit directed organization as taught by the governing body. So if you answer no they can quickly end the meeting and get to important stuff like 14 year old girls confessing their little sex stories.

Left in the Cold

Let's see...Spring of 2007, I think. I remember it so clearly because the question came out of left field. The question honestly took me by surprise. When I did say no, the JC said they were jut going to "shelf" the matter of my adultery that I readily admitted to. In The Spring of 2011, I don't recall being asked that question when, once again, I had a JC. But it was a different congregation, too. Btw, after about 6 months of have the matter "shelved", I changed khs and was promptly df'd. I was pissed because I could've already had six month of being df'd behind me. I appealed the decision on disfellowshipping when I moved to the new hall to no avail. I was told I didn't 'understand the question properly" at that time.

I'm a little drunk right now, so if I'm not making sense, just pm me. I'll check it later tonight. I gotta get ready for the meeting tonight, hence the drunk part. Wish me luck.

00DAD

LeftInTheCold, Interesting story. A little confusing, but interesting. Good luck. Fill us in more later, when you're straighter!!!

Loyalty Questions in Judicial Hearings

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