by Healthworker 320 Replies latest members adult
You say "all" because you made stuff up about other people, made up some numbers, made up some stuff about how you think every single person will feel and then try to claim you are right?
Why am I not surprised? Of wait, I'm not, I put on my hip waders before wandering back into this thread. Time to go hose off.
Fortunately, the atheists and humanists I know we'll in real life are never evangelical.
It's funny that you say this, Chariklo. That's been my experience too. For me it's only been online that I've seen some of the anger against believers in God. The friends that I have that are atheists are not angry and bitter. Maybe the impersonable act of writing in front of a screen brings out the worst in us.
As far as agenda goes, this is tricky. I believe that I have the right viewpoint that a Creator is undeniable. However, an atheist thinks the same about their view. Each of us want to tell the other person why we think we have the correct view. Is that an agenda? Perhaps. We all like it when we are able to say something that causes someone to stop and think for a second that maybe there IS something to what they are saying.
I know that this site has caused me to reevaluate my beliefs several times, and has altered them in many cases. Did I succomb to an agenda? I don't think so. I'm no longer afraid of another person having an agenda, like I was as a JW. I now know that I can take something that is said, investigate it, and intelligently formulate my response to it.
Of course there ARE those that come to this site for the single purpose of converting others. I don't agree with that. Unfortunately it seems that this is more often the case with evangelical Christians than with atheists. In fact I don't know of a single atheist that didn't have any experience with JWs and came to this site to change beliefs of others. I view this site as a place to recover and talk about things we never COULD talk about as JWs. I think that purpose needs to stay intact. And while we want to get our personal points across, respect of each other and open discussion should be the number 1 priority.
Ther reason I say "all" is because the human mind cannot discover it's been lied to (as well as lying to itself) in the way the Watchtower does and not feel anger.
I think that's a fair assumption. Yeah, there will be those that come out without an outward expression of anger. But for the most part, you are going to be pissed that you were lied to for so long.
I had to get to the point where I recognized that it was poisonous for me to be bitter anymore. I had to give up the anger and accept that it happened and turn it into pity. I'm sure current JWs would be mad that I pity them, but I do. Only for the reason that they are being lied to and refuse to see it. They are not allowed to see it. In many cases it does not have to do with intelligence, but instead it deals with fear. Fear of what is out there in the big ugly "world". Fear of what they will lose. Fear of who they think God is and what that God would do to them for leaving his organization.
Well believers...why don't you tell us what you really think...LOL
No wonder you have no problem with the OP of this thread....some of the judgements made on this page alone are astounding.
[edit] just like the OP of this thread, don't think I'm talking about all believers on this thread. But I'm sure you know who we are talking about. Just like apparently we all know who the OP is talking about don't we?
Interesting.
Atheists in real life are not evangelical.
Yep.
But when we get on a discussion forum, the place where we actually talk about these things---suddenly---evangelical?
Believers talk, and talk, and talk, paragraph after paragraph, making stuff up, telling others what they think, praising their particular god---not evangelical. Not 'predatory (Sab's word). An atheist on the same forum does it----militant.
Agenda.
"Gee, the atheists in my life are really nice---as long as they don't talk about their atheism! Then they are just out-of-line."
Here's a clue.
If your atheist friends are not discussing it with you in real life, it is because they know they cannot. They know you will be all fine and friendly as long as it's not where they can see it much. They know if they open their mouths, then suddenly they will be viewed as harmful, militant, angry and predatory. They know they will be viewed as having an agenda---by their friend. So your atheists are nice and different in real life (as opposed a discussion forum, where it is oh-so-sinful in the minds of believers for atheists to speak up and defend their postion---I mean, why the f**k can't they just shut up?) because they won't be open and honest with you about their deeper thoughts.
And for good reason.
This thread explains that reason.
I rarely talk about my nonbelief in real life. Friends may be a aware of it, but I keep quiet. Because I understand the deep prejudice and distrust that comes from stirring it up. I understand how fragile a lot of them are and how they react to any challenge. I may be one of those 'real life atheist friends' that are being referrenced here as being really nice.
And if I want to be viewed as nice and safe and this board, I would have to take the same course. Fine you're an atheist, now please just shut the f**k up! And then it's rainbows and butterflies.
You all make me laugh as you discuss atheists and pretend you are oh-so-open minded and accepting. You say now, and have always said the same thing: Atheists are just fine if they stay quiet.
I'm feeling lazy so everything NC just said x2
Where's the like button?
Yes..."predators" LOL
In real life I don't talk to ANYONE about my non belief except my partner. And even that is limited because he still believes.
There you go cofy...I'm going to aswell...
NEW CHAPTER
I'm not sure if some of those comments were directed at me, NC, but if they were, you got me all wrong.
1. I talk to my atheist friends all the time about God (pro and con), why they've come to their conclusion and why I've come to mine. They know that I am not preaching at them. Often we don't even discuss "God", but discuss science only. We don't avoid the conversation. However, the difference in real life and here is that when we are face to face we are respectful of each other. I don't tell them that God has rejected them because they reject him, and they don't say that I'm delusional for reaching my conclusions. They know that I'm not going to condemn them for their beliefs or lack therof. However, sometimes (believers and non believers) when we get in front of our computer screen and are among people we don't have any emotional attachment to and will most likely never meet, we say things that we normally wouldn't in RL. It shouldn't be that way. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: There are real people with real feelings on the other end. Take Oompa for example. Some of us are going through extremely hard times that no one on the board knows about. We should be conscious that what we say can and will greatly effect the reader on the other end.
2. Evangelical. I'll concede to this. Yes, there is a double standard sometimes with Christians. I can say everything I want to say to convince you, but if you do, you are being militant. I have definitely noticed this trend in believers (occasionally me included). That's not right. I guess when I get annoyed is when I'm called names and it's implied that I'm less inteligent that the atheist speaker. Sometimes believers do this also, and that's absolutely just as bad. There shouldn't be a double standard. We should be able to speak about the conclusions we've come to without being called "fanatical" or "militant" or accuse others of being delusional or evil. That being said, I think the reason why atheists began to get more harsh is because they got sick and tired of being told by fundamental Christians that they are going to hell for not believing in God. So their response was "You're all delusional." Totally understandable.
3. I don't want atheists to stay quiet. I love talking to atheists, as well as agnostics, and believers in other systems. I like finding out what they believe, don't believe, etc and why they came to those conclusions. There's no reason to get angry and pigon hole all believers, just as there is no reason for me to pigon hole all non believers. I've written about this before, but we all stereotype and label in one way or another. We use the term "atheist" and we put everyone that doesn't believe in God in a single category where we can treat them all as if they believe the same thing and are the same exact person with the same feelings, tendencies, view on life, whatever. The same can be said with "believers" or "Christians". Just because I believe in God does not mean that I support the arguments of other believers. It also doesn't mean that I condemn you like others do. By using the term "Christian", it only means that I claim to believe in Jesus Christ and follow Him. It does not mean that I support the arguments of other Christians, especially the hateful ones, and condemn everyone that does not believe as I do.
And remember, no matter how we feel or what we actually think, we are ALL angry. We need to be told how we MUST feel because there is no chance we can't feel any other way, despite the fact that we do feel another way.
