Interesting discussion with some Witnesses at my door today

by jwfacts 59 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    Contrary to JW assertions, the wives are often the "thinkers" in the family, and the men have their positions due merely to 'physical attributes.' ; ) You gave the wife many great points to think about.

    BTW, you and your website are cited in the following article: When a Patient Refuses Life-Saving Care: Issues Raised When Treating a Jehovah's Witness, 58 Am. J. Kidney Dis. 647 (2011) (acknowledging a diversity of beliefs regarding blood within the Jehovah's Witness religion).

    You can access a free copy here:

    Past Issues > 2011 > Vol. 58, No. 4, October 2011 > scroll down to "In Practice."

    In addition, is cited within the text of the article.

  • 00DAD

    jwfacts: My hope is that ... at least they can come to see the dogmatic attitude that they alone have Truth is illogical.

    Nice hope, but that would require them to be logical. From your account it is quite clear that this man does not know how to think logically. But of course that is true for 99.9% of all JWs.

    WT "Theology" is an incoherent, incomprehensible, illogical mess of contradictory, self-serving doctrines, policies, platitudes, rules and regulations.

    It is impossible to believe JW Beliefs and be logical because they aren't.

    Outlaw: A conversation with a JW ... Is like Talking to a ... Fence Post

    For once I disagree with you. You're wrong. Fence posts don't say stupid things!

  • NoRegrets

    Marvelous handling of the situation! Keeping calm and being relaxed confuses them enough that you can get your message through their barriers! You just might have planted some successful seeds of doubt in the wife that could blossom!

    We just moved into a new house and are eager to have a first visit at our doorstep. I hope I can conduct myself even half as well as you did!


  • kepler


    Thanks. A very interesting chart and introductory text. When I have gone to sources in English such as an old encyclopedia in my living room, the wider publication of apocrypha among Protestants is obscured by the Anglo-Saxon Protestant perspective. The introduction to the Roman Catholic Bible will speak of Maccabees and other inclusions as Deutero-canonical. The reasons might vary - either to late authorship or unlikely historicity ( a story). Other books not making the cut might have more serious problems. Yet there are further divisions within the idea of a canon, when one considers that Jonah is part of the Hebrew OT prophets and Daniel is not...

    But it sounds like you are saying that had I been speaking to elders in a coffee shop neaby the Danube, ignorance of Maccabees would be an even less acceptable answer.

  • perfect1

    One day I hope I can handle that situation with the intelligence and grace that you did.

  • tootired2care

    Those are some strong points you made Paul, maybe you helped them to really see some light. Thanks for sharing.

  • rip van winkle
    rip van winkle

    You showed them kindness and patience and they will remember you for that just as much as your thoughtful questions. And you never know, you may be a part of their awakening.

  • ziddina

    Excellent reasoning, Paul, and a fine thread.

    But Paul....

    With the questions I ask, I can usually get them to run off of my porch... Hee hee hee heeee!

  • sizemik

    Thanks for relating that Paul . . . these D2D encounters are always an interesting read.

    The last visit I received I got insulted as well . . . told I was "hard-hearted" because I didn't agree that regular Christian meetings were essential to personal faith. It's interesting how they feel free to do that on your own property.

    Like flipper, the depth of mental control stood out for me . . . they really do lack the ability to entertain a new thought for even a micro-second, esp. while out in the preaching work.

  • jws

    Great story. Whenever they come, I hide my JW past and talk to and argue with them. Refreshing to argue with an elder with no repercussions. And I remain calm, lest I blow my cover.

    I've gotta also wonder what effect you might have had on the kids. It's probably an effect I have yet to see accounted for in born-ins leaving. When young influential children come to the door and hear somebody debate their parents and their parents can't answer back. What thoughts go through the child's mind? As a born and raised, I think I tended to shut out my parent's conversations at the door and especially when it got too techincal. But sometimes I heard things that made me think. Maybe not enough to leave, but thoughts stayed with me that probably helped me question and get out later.

    Probably 2-3 years ago a JW came knocking on my door. Something about God is Love was the topic of the day and I disputed him and brought up things. Like God playing both sides in the Moses story and had him read it from his own Bible. We know what God told Moses to do, but every time pharoah was about to give in, God hardened his heart and enacted more plagues. And we discussed other things. I noticed he stopped bringing his kids to my door when he returned.

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