sbf - I've never read any of the atheist books.
Carl Sagan? Yes. Farley Mowat? Yes. etc.
edit: but I've been an atheist for many years.
New Atheism+ calls for middle-class white cis-man Dawkins to move over.
by bohm 47 Replies latest jw friends
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King Solomon
Dawkins is his own worst enemy. How much of this trouble originated with him anyway?
Actually, Dawkins issued a call to arms for atheists (scientists who are atheists) to stand up to theologic bullying, esp pertaining to the creationist attempts to introduce religious concepts into science courses.
Dawkins is brilliant, so it's no wonder he gets extremely irritated when confronted by someone like Eric Hovind arguing creationism. People object to Dawkins arrogance (and his British accent doesn't help with bigots, who automatically interpret ANYONE who speaks with an accent and is educated as if they were done to be condesecnding to them, LOL!), but the dude IS sharp, and has forgotten more about evolutionary biology than I know, and most people could ever hope to know.
However, this is a tempest in a teapot: those people claiming to speak for "the atheist movement" are delusional, as there is no organized movement that one MUST belong to in order to self-identify as an atheist. It's the flip-side of the fallacy of calling atheism "a religion", since it's creating a strawmen, both ways....
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00DAD
It must be some weird atheistic corollary to Godwin's Law, but whenever a thread like this appears it's never long before someone takes it upon themselves to defend Richard Dawkins against attacks real or imagined. The vitriol of such comments are generally disproportionate to whatever remark was made about Dawkins and usually seem intended to provoke and escalate the discussion into a heated argument.
What's up with that?
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King Solomon
It must be some weird atheistic corollary to Godwin's Law, but whenever a thread like this appears it's never long before someone takes it upon themselves to defend Richard Dawkins against attacks real or imagined. The vitriol of such comments are generally disproportionate to whatever remark was made about Dawkins and usually seem intended to provoke and escalate the discussion into a heated argument.
What's up with that?
Can I assume that snipe was directed at me, perchance?
00Dad, not all of us start threads that only seek opinions that agree with ours, or that only tell us what we want to hear (as you recently did, even sending me a PM telling me not to post in YOUR thread, when I dared to offer an opinion which you felt threatened the "woe is me" spirit of your thread).
See, JWN is called a "discussion" forum, AKA a search for balance and contrasting opinions in an effort to fully examine all sides of an issue. You might try it sometime? KInd of ironic having to say that in a thread discussing free-thinking, no?
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sabastious
Actually, Dawkins issued a call to arms for atheists (scientists who are atheists) to stand up to theologic bullying, esp pertaining to the creationist attempts to introduce religious concepts into science courses.
That just makes him a hypocrite. Bullies shouldn't preach against bullying until they stop bullying themselves for an extended period of time. Dawkins calling his newest book the "magic of reality" is simply not enough. This would be a good time to STFU.
-Sab
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00DAD
King Sol, thanks for proving my point!
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cofty
FreeThoughtBlogs has been ripping itself apart for months over feminist issues. Something happened at a conference where sombody propositioned somebody in a lift and they condemned it from the stage the next day and everbody took sides. Pathetic.
I deleted PZ Myers from my bookmark bar a while ago.
For what its worth I always find Dawkins to be rational, reasonable and respectful. His opponents confuse unambiguous talking with rudeness. Too bad for them and their precious superstitions.
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james_woods
However, this is a tempest in a teapot: those people claiming to speak for "the atheist movement" are delusional, as there is no organized movement that one MUST belong to in order to self-identify as an atheist. It's the flip-side of the fallacy of calling atheism "a religion", since it's creating a strawmen, both ways....
This logic is flawed from my perspective. I have never said that purely self-identified personal atheism is a "religion".
What I did say was that those people claiming to speak for or create an "atheist movement" were in fact creating a religion -- or, at least, a quasi-religion.
An example - Madelyn Murray O'Hair. What else could you call her movement but a religious organization in the name of atheism? The posts at the opening of this thread are essentially the same thing.
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NewChapter
Oh dear, has someone defended Dawkins? Has some rule been broken? You have to understand, Sol, that even though Dawkins was brought into this conversation before you mentioned him, even though criticism was lobbed at him (perhaps THATs some kind of Godwin's Law) you just need to shut the hell up! Everyone knows that there is to be no defending of Dawkins. What's wrong with you, Man, are you mad?
Nobody needs to criticize the ideas or the ideas that you defend----no they just need to completely invalidate you by pointing out that you defended Dawkins---and that is SOOOOO CLICHE! I'm embarrassed for you! You are a blight on the atheist community!
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NewChapter
Sab, people create movements all the time that aren't religions. Religions need to have some kind of supernatural element. Otherwise they are just earthbound ideologies. There is no supernatural in any movement driven by atheists. And all atheists don't agree with all movements, nor would be interested. You can't define the principles an atheist lives by, because it simply describes that they don't believe there is any evidence for gods. Beyond that----anything is possible. But I do find that most atheists I meet are not suffering under ancient morals and culture, so they tend to be a great deal more tolerant of many things. But I'm sure there are sexist, racist atheists out there. Yet science does not support them, and most atheists I know have some respect for science, but not all of them.
Movement does not equal Religion. Quite simple, really.
COFTY! How are you? I've been thinking about you. I started a thread on the other forum looking for you.