Can you list watchtower articles that claim anything from the 'faithful slave' should be taken as from jehovah himself?

by EndofMysteries 34 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • irondork

    Just in case someone wants to note the reference for future use:

    JWFacts: we would neither understand the full import of what we read in God’s Word nor know how to apply it." Examining the Scriptures Daily 2012 Mar 4

    Assuming you took this quote directly from the E the S provided on the 2011 cd library, texts which will be overwritten with 2012 texts on the next cd, the Watchtower referenced in that text is: w10 9/15 Earnestly Seek Jehovah's Blessing p.8 par. 6

  • Black Sheep
  • Ultimate Axiom
    Ultimate Axiom

    "In 1942 the "faithful and discreet slave" guided by Jehovah's unerring spirit made known that the democracies would win World War II and that there would be a United Nations organization set up." Watchtower 1960 Jul 15 p. 444

    Does anyone know the original 1942 reference?

  • Emery

    That July 1 1943 Watchtower is priceless. They literally show words that Jehovah supposedly told them to say.

  • Quendi

    In answer to Ultimate Axiom’s question—by the way, as a mathematician I love that username—the “prediction that the democracies would win World War II and that there would be a United Nations organization set up” was made by Nathan Knorr. The occasion was a speech at the United Theocratic Announcers convention in Cleveland, Ohio on 20 September 1942.

    At first blush this seems to be divinely inspired. Certainly that is what the writer of the cited Watchtower piece wants its readers to think. Looking past the hype reveals a very simple and mundane explanation that should put paid to the notion of divine guidance of the WTS.

    The United Nations was not a name or idea the WTS conjured out of thin air. On 14 August 1941, U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt and U.K. Prime Minister Winston Churchill held what was called the Atlantic Conference in Newfoundland, Canada. That meeting resulted in the Atlantic Charter and this Charter proposed that after the war ended, a United Nations organization should be created that would replace the then defunct League of Nations as an organ of world security. In other words, talk of a United Nations organization had been in the public discourse for more than a year before Knorr ever took to the Cleveland stage to give his slant on it.

    When the Conference took place, the United States was not then involved in the war, but by the time of the Witness assembly in Cleveland it was actively engaged in both the European and Pacific theaters. Knorr was no theologian, but the real oracle and seer for the organization was Frederick Franz, and this statement has his fingerprints all over it. He took the world situation of that time and twisted his interpretation of the Bible to make this prediction. World War II still had three more bloody years to run before ending on 2 September 1945, but based on the Atlantic Charter, Franz was confident of an Allied victory, the creation of the United Nations and, what the article doesn’t mention, the speedy destruction of “the world empire of false religion” which would follow.


  • Ultimate Axiom
    Ultimate Axiom

    Thank you Quendi, a very informative reply and much appreciated.

    So, yet another example of a deliberately misleading half truth from the lovers of “Truth”. Reminds me of the claim in the Watchtower of February 15th 1966 (page 103) " For over thirty years before [1914] Jehovah’s Witnesses have pointed to the year 1914 as the time for the end of “the appointed times of the nations” and the time in which Christ would begin his Kingdom rule."

    Now, while it is true that in 1879 the Watchtower “pointed to” 1914 as the end of “the appointed times of the nations”, it is simply not true to say that 1914 was also “pointed to” as "the time in which Christ would begin his Kingdom rule" - before 1914, that happened in 1878 - it was more than a decade after 1914 that the Watchtower settled on 1914 for that event. And apart from this error (or lie) what they also left out of the 1966 Watchtower article was the fact that for thirty years before 1914 the significance of the end of “the appointed times of the nations” was that it would also be the end of Armageddon. But such an inconvenient detail would obviously damage their attempt to boost their divine guidance credentials so could not be mentioned.

  • Ultimate Axiom
    Ultimate Axiom

    I know this is somewhat off-topic to the original thread, but I have read a little more about this “prediction” that the "faithful and discreet slave" supposedly gave as they were “guided by Jehovah's unerring spirit”.

    I found the text of the speech that Knorr gave on September 20th 1942 in a booklet called, “Peace – Can it last?”, (although the booklet calls it the New World Theocratic Assembly rather than United Theocratic Announcers Assembly, but I’m assuming it’s the same one as the dates match) – you can get a copy from here;

    Nowhere in this speech does Knorr predict the outcome claimed. He does in fact refer to a number of possible outcomes to the war, including the setting up of a World Government, a sort of USW, on pages 11-12 he says, “Those of a democratic mind hope for a United States of the world, a "family of nations", a "world association" based on the United Nations, including a "world legion". Says one spokesman: "An international constitution and government will be a postwar necessity."”.

    He goes on to quote the prediction of a US cabinet member who, as far as we know, made his prediction without the guidance of Jehovah’s unerring spirit - “One of the president's own cabinet members says: "A world organization, with the United Nations as its base, will determine the peace, and the postwar world will be policed by the allied powers."” (page 12). And what is more, Knorr does not even endorse this prediction any more than he does any of the others.

    So in actual fact, the "faithful and discreet slave" did not make it known that the democracies would win World War II and set up the UN, it was the other way round, the democracies made this known to the faithful and discreet slave! This arrogation of someone else’s prediction is extraordinary, even by Watchtower standards, especially when you consider that the 1960 Watchtower was written by the very same people (Knorr and Franz) who wrote that 1942 speech.

  • AnnOMaly

    Ultimate Axiom, you may find THIS ARTICLE an interesting read.

  • Leolaia

    This is my take on the 1942 prediction:

    First of all, the claim made in 1942 that the Allies may win WWII is an about face of what was taught as recently as December 1941. The Watchtower, edited by Joseph Rutherford, published a lengthy series of articles (entitled "Demon Rule Ending") that autumn interpreting the "King of the North" vision from Daniel as a window into what lies in the near future. In these articles, the author (whether Rutherford or Fred Franz) foretold that the neither Axis nor Allied Powers would win the war in victory but that both sides would form, with the totalitarian Axis Powers taking the dominant role, an armistice leading to a "new League of Nations" through which the cry of "peace and security!" would call forth. Through these events, all nations would become totalitarian states like the Axis Powers. This draws on the declaration made by the Axis Powers in November 1940 to establish a "new League of Nations" when the war is finished. Rutherford moreover had been teaching since 1938 (in Face the Facts) that the Axis powers would succeed in obtaining Great Britain and the USA, and for an even longer time the Golden Age published articles on how the totalitarians were in the process of destroying the American government and replacing it with totalitarianism. All of these are mistaken predictions, if not "false prophecy". And the idea that the "abomination of desolation" will be realized by a "new League of Nations" was already in place, as expressed in the 15 December 1941 Watchtower (p. 373), which also connected this coming organization with the "beast" of Revelation 17:3-7.

    Then two things happened in January 1942. One, Rutherford died and Nathan Knorr took control of the Watchtower Society. Two, the Allied Powers declared their intent via the Atlantic Charter to establish a "United Nations" for maintaining peace between nations after the war has ended. That spring, the Watchtower was full of articles emphasizing the closeness of Armageddon: "Armageddon is very near....Now we are near the FINAL END of the 'time of the end' ... Armageddon swiftly approaching ... Armageddon, now near ... The final gathering by the Lord is on ... The time is short" (1 February 1942, pp. 37-45), "Armageddon is at hand" (1 March 1942, p. 80), "Now with Armageddon immediately before us ... The world emergency with Armageddon at the door is the very time to most anxiously keep God's law and obey him" (1 May 1942, pp. 139-142), etc. I doubt statements like these from 1942 are emphasized today in the summer convention talks. Then in the 15 May 1942 issue of the Watchtower, the author wrote that the setting up of the abomination of desolation, which has been going on since 1919 (when the original League of Nations was formed), but which will be given definitive form in a totalitarian "new world order" is "a sure sign of the nearness of Armageddon" (p. 153). The same article also backpedaled on the earlier belief that the Axis Powers would hold the upper hand in ending the war. Now it is claimed that the Axis Powers may well be forced to compromise with the Allies: "[The Pope] wants to save something of advantage out of any possible failure of his scheme for world domination. He is willing to compromise with the anti-Axis forces should they gain military victory. While so doing he can try to shield his totalitarian puppets against total ruin and undoing" (Ibid.).

    The emerging view on the post-war period was expounded in September 1942, both in a 1 September 1942 Watchtower and at the Peace -- Can It Last? talk at the annual convention. The idea that the war would end in a peace pact goes back to the 1941 view, but Knorr no longer claimed that the war would end without a definitive victory for either side. It was now implied that the Allied Powers would attain victory, as it is their United Nations (as opposed to the Axis Powers' "New League of Nations") that would administer the post-war period as the "beast" that comes out of the abyss of inactivity. But in claiming that this understanding was obtained "by Jehovah's unerring spirit" (as stated in the 15 July 1960 Watchtower), the Society omits some important details about how Knorr conceptualized this post-war United Nations. First of all, Knorr conceived of the United Nations as a powerful organization that will run the affairs of the world. The Vatican would hold the UN together, "as a supranational power over the postwar confederacy of nations", and the Vatican would place armies all over the world that would keep the peace as a powerful international police force. This would be set up very quickly after the cessation of hostilities, for sudden destruction would follow after the declaration of "peace and destruction". And this leads to the second fact, which is that Knorr construed the post-war period as very, very short. In the 1 September 1942 Watchtower, it was published that "the 'battle of that great day of God Almighty' will break out suddenly upon the postwar builders when they think they can cry out, 'Peace and safety' " and that "man's postwar arrangement will not survive the battle of Armageddon" (p. 259). The Kingdom News of April 1943 similarly stated that "When the postwar builders cry 'Peace and safety!' then will break forth the battle and will destroy this old world" (p. 2). The 1943 booklet Fighting For Liberty on the Home Front made this prediction of the near future:

    "Despite all declared aims and slogans of the United Nations, this curb against the free spreading of the truth will not stop with the end of the global war. God Almighty's own Word for it is that the opposition to Bible Christianity will not weaken in the postwar period, but will persist and strengthen. At the last it will bring the nations to the climax, the battle of Armageddon. For this reason, when the postwar builders get their political, commercial, religious structure erected and operating and begin to cry "Peace and Safety!" it will not mean a peace with the truth about Jehovah's Theocratic Government under his Christ. Therefore it will not mean a peace with or from Jehovah God. Suddenly complete destruction from God and by Christ will come upon the whole postwar arrangement, and organized religion will go down first. God's Word says so" (pp. 28-29).

    Then when the war seemed very close to a finish in 1944, the Watchtower continued to stress the extreme closeness of Armageddon. The 1 March 1944 Watchtower referred to "this time immediately before Armageddon's war" (p. 77), and the 1 May 1944 Watchtower stated that "the day of Armageddon is very near ... This is the time of great emergency because the battle of Armageddon is very near" (pp. 141-142). The 1944 booklet Religion Reaps the Whirlwind declares that "that terrific whirlwind of annihilation is drawing near according to all the weather signals of God's Word" (p. 59-60). The rhetoric became even more intense after V-E Day (8 May 1945). In a talk delivered on 10 June 1945, Knorr urged: "There is no longer any time to wait, for the Kingdom of God is here! ... It is a day of decision, and its precious hours of opportunity are remorselessly ticking out. The zero hour for the final war of Amageddon is undelayably coming on" (The Commander to the Peoples, pp. 21-23). He continued by pointing to the United Nations plan drawn up in the Dumbarton Oaks Conference in 1944 and the 1945 San Francisco Conference as "the final total lineup of this old world against Jehovah's universal domination ... It is the time for the battle of Armageddon" (pp. 26-28).

    So if Knorr actually predicted anything, it is this: The war would end with a peace treaty with the United Nations in charge of a global government orchestrated behind the scenes by the Vatican. The UN would be established very quickly through the placing of totalitarian armies around the world to keep the peace, and it would set to work immediately on banning Jehovah's Witnesses throughout the world. Then it would declare "Peace and safety!", the war is now over, but almost as quickly as the postwar period starts, the democratic powers discover that the Vatican is really running the show and they take action against the Pope and the Vatican, destroying the institution altogether. Then almost instantly, all the governments of the world undergo destruction themselves and billions of people are killed directly by God.

    Now, I might not have the history quite right, but does anyone recall anything like this actually happening in 1945 and 1946?

  • Ultimate Axiom
    Ultimate Axiom

    AnnOMaly – a very interesting piece from Carl Olof Jonsson, and you’re right, I did find it an interesting read. And Leolaia, a very good précis on the subject, thank you. If I have to disagree with anything you posted (and I acknowledge the IF) it is this; “So if Knorr actually predicted anything, it is this: … ”

    My point was that Knorr (and/or Franz) predicted nothing at all! That is, nothing that actually came true. Everything HE predicted failed. He took an (after the event) some one else’s prediction that did come true, ignored the rest, and claimed it for himself. Intellectual dishonesty at the highest.

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