How a Gay Jewish Boy from New England Came to Be and Leave the JWs (and what he did next) (page 4)

CalebInFloroda

Okay, me thinks me got it, Lois.

Enkantado. Soy byen, munchas gracyas.

Se avalando en Ladino, que tal! Adonde estudyar? Eyes Judeo?

(I win, iPad!)

snugglebunny

FUKITOL - Why do gay people have to put so much emphasis on their gayness for their identity as a human being? Do heterosexual people use the word 'heterosexual' as the first and foremost descriptor of themselves to others?

I asked the self-same question of a long-time gay friend of mine. He explained it thus: He said that when a group of guys were together - especially if they'd had a few beers - the conversation would invariably turn to women, what sort of woman they fancied etc and the talk would soon turn into a dick-waving bravado contest. He said that if he didn't state his preferences right from the start he'd just feel like a social reject because he simply was unable to participate in the general sexual bonhomie. Now he's stated his position he feels much more comfortable amongst his hetero friends, and can even appreciate the general ribaldry that takes place amongst straight guys.

FayeDunaway

Caleb, that is an interesting perspective on belief in God (why the g_d?).

thank you for that long explanation! I think I am more interested though in your personal stance...you said it doesn't matter so much if you believe or not, as a Jew, but then you say you have a brother who is an atheist...I think I am getting that you do accept Jesus etc., and even the trinity based on what you said earlier about john 1:1 (thank you for that). I agree that the witness experience is very dry and unappealing. I can not think of any other religion so boring in its 'worship', but I have not been to an Adventist church or Christian scientist.

Your sexual orientation is an extremely important part of your story, and I can not imagine what it is like to grow up gay as a jw. I have a friend from my old hall who was disfellowshipped tho, after trying to contend with the idea of living alone forever and deciding he just couldn't do it. He's very happy now but none of his family talks to him anymore, and they were all VERY close, it's heartbreaking.

CalebInFloroda

Why the "G-d"?

It's how Jews spell "God." In Jewish culture to use a word or name that is holy as often and in the same manner as a mundane one makes that word or name mundane too. This is one reason why Jews rarely pronounce YHWH. We usually say "HaShem" instead (which means "the Name"). And since in Hebrew "Elohim" is also a Name when speaking of the Abrahamic God (sorry JWs, but it's not always just a title) Jews don't spell it out in its complete form in any language in case the object upon which it appears is treated in a mundane or profane manner. So when you see "G-d," be assured you are talking about the Jewish God and the various concepts associated.

CalebInFloroda

Post script:

I didn't say I didn't believe in God. I was explaining that what God is to me and the Jewish culture is not something that get reduced to a mere belief.

One believes in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. One believes in a weather report. Christians believe in concepts, and that belief equals faith that leads to a reward.

The Jewish stance is more of an active response or participation in God, even if one is atheist. One cannot reject something that isn't, because even if the Jewish concept of God is rejected by an individual Jew, who and what they are is so defined by HaShem that even a rejection is a response or participation in what shapes the history and lives of Jews. You are still a Jew if there is no God, and you're a Jew because of God, whether real or imaginary. The belief or no belief thing is too naive to be applied here.

GrreatTeacher

Caleb, that idea of god I can actually understand.

The whole idea that you have to actively accept Jesus' gift of everlasting life never cut it with me intellectually even when I was flirting with mainstream Christianity while my son was young. God should be able to give forgiveness without any "sinful" human's participation in the process if he truly were all powerful.

I have a similar story about having a high IQ, understanding that I was being taught some things that made no sense by the adults around me, but not being exactly able to put my finger on it due to lack of higher education. Though I have been able to get a degree, I still feel resentful that I was taught rubbish and believed it through my teenage years. If having intelligence is part of your identity, being fooled feels like a personal failing, even though I know, intellectually, that I was a child and I'm not responsible for what I was taught to believe back then.

LoisLane looking for Superman

Ladino, I had never heard of it, so to be polite and say hello and welcome to you I googled 'How to say hello in Ladino'. lol Presto! Bingo! Easy-peasy fresh apple pie, resulted in the above Ladino reply.

No, I am not Jewish. I have a varied gene pool including native American from a long time ago, but no Jewish people. Lots of religious English and Scots though.

I have a near relative who tells me I should seek out Jewish friends and get involved in the Jewish community way of life. He says they are wonderful and loving families who encourage education and getting ahead. (As in opposite JW dumb downed thinking, plus if you do think outside the JW box, the rest of the JW's won't have anything to do with you. That is so sick and unnatural).

You sound like a treasure. When you are ready for it, I hope you find the love of your life.

All the best!

LoisLane

FayeDunaway

Well Caleb I think I am finally (mostly) appeased and will stop asking nosy questions for now :). I do just want to say your unique insights will be very valuable here and you are amazing.

Alive!

Hi Caleb,

I'm very new here and am just finding my way around.

I have a Jewish heritage on maternal side.

Will look forward to more fascinating posts from yourself, so interesting.

Wonderful that your family of siblings have been able to find comfort in the wider community of their Jewish relatives!

CalebInFloroda

Thanks for the welcome everyone. I appreciate it so very much!

How a Gay Jewish Boy from New England Came to Be and Leave the JWs (and what he did next)

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