....and a new wrinkle

by outsmartthesystem 41 Replies latest jw friends

troubled mind

I agree with many of the comments so far . Reassure your daughter . Let her know you love her and will always want only the best for her . (Do not lie to her ...if you don't worship Jehovah don't say you do )
It is time to confront your wife . Indoctrinating your daughter against you is wrong and you should not tolerate it in your home .
I grew up in a 'divided ' household and from a very young age was told that one day my Father ,and unbelieving Grandparents may one day try to take me from my Mother ,and it was important for me to remain loyal to Jehovah on my own . This was when I was 5-6 yrs old ....this seriously stresses out a child and it should be a CRIME . It is emotionally abusive to thrust Armageddon fears upon young childrens minds .It caused me to never trust my Father or to be totally honest with him . This was a shame because it was all based on my Mom's imagined persecution possibility all based on Watchtower CRAPOLA ! It has only been in the last few years that I am actually having honest heart to heart conversations with my Dad ....he is 83 . Don't let this happen to you . You CAN prevent this outcome .
You need to have a serious talk with your wife . Stand up for your daughters well being ,mentally and emotionaly.Tell her what is acceptable ,child appropriate teaching and what is NOT .
What kind of life do you want for your children ?? It is up to you to provide it ,do not make the mistake of sitting back and letting your wife make all the decisions of the childs up-bringing . You are the Father and YOU have a big say in this you know .
yknot

Jamie,
His 5 year old first need is for stability in their home.
You might noticed I mentioned his wife and his daughter not trusting him.....
While his wife will more than likely be wary for several months, his child will probably be ready to follow his gentle lead within a week or two (maybe less if she has been a 'daddy's girl').
I believe I saw on the other thread he said he had ordered "Teach Your Children How to Think".
It is far easier to begin teaching such if he remains married to their mother.....
If he doesn't go back (or at least appear to be trying) he will remain suspect to some extent.
I have seen JW children dismiss their unbelieving parents ......his daughter very well might be the type to go that route because she feels in her heart that is the right thing to do......
His wife is already showing some classic reactions...... pushing these buttons will only lead to more division and disharmony....and all the 5 year old is going to discern is 'its daddy's fault because daddy doesn't love and obey Jehovah and he is trying to get me to do it too" ....daddy is already cast as an 'enemy of Jehovah' in her mind.....so falling back, recreating trust allows him to replace that negativity in her mind and allows him the opportunity to lead her to critical thinking and knowing her daddy loves her, he is trustworthy, stable, predictable and strong .....he keeps her safe....daddy isn't the 'bad guy'.
Nika Bee

I am so sorry to read this.
My father was in a similar situation with me. My mother became a Witness around the time when I was born. I have some early memories about them arguing about religion and how to bring us up. But my father must have had a feeling that pressing the matter would just backfire.
I was told by my mother and other sisters to 'witness' to him, tell him to come to the meetings, play the worried daughter. But I really never did, I was never really outspoken. I hated it, when our mother told us not to tell him that we were going to the book study, but instead tell him we were going to play with friends. But still I have the feeling that this prevented me from having real conversations with my father, and a deep relationship.
My father was just really patient. He would od things with us as much as his work schedule permitted. Everyday things and fund things. I remember I was so proud that he let me help him change the tires of our car. When my mother was going out at night, we often looked at family pictures, and pictures when we were little.
He also was the one to encourage me to do well at school, to persue what I was interested in. He recognized even when I was in elementary school, that I had an interest and gift for math and logic. He would give me books on these subjects and magazines and articles. When I was older it was usually him driving me to math workshops and things like this.
No I am doing my PhD in math :-)
I called him not so long ago, to tell him, that I am not a Witness anymore, and to thank him. It was our first 'real' conversation, without anything standing between us. Since then, we have talked often and about a lot of things, and I really got to appreciate, how all these years must have been for him, what it must have meant to him to be so patient. I can't wait to go back home for a couple of weeks in two months.
King Solomon

Nika Bee said:
No I am doing my PhD in math :-)
I called him not so long ago, to tell him, that I am not a Witness anymore, and to thank him. It was our first 'real' conversation, without anything standing between us. Since then, we have talked often and about a lot of things, and I really got to appreciate, how all these years must have been for him, what it must have meant to him to be so patient. I can't wait to go back home for a couple of weeks in two months.
Wow, what a great story... It must've been unbelievably hard for him to deal with, after realizing that one's kids are going in the wrong direction of a cult, but he gave you to tools you needed to make it, and that's the greatest gift any parent can give to their child in the end: the tools that lead to self-sufficiency, not permanent dependence to a group.
jamiebowers

Ynot:
His 5 year old first need is for stability in their home.
You might noticed I mentioned his wife and his daughter not trusting him.....
While his wife will more than likely be wary for several months, his child will probably be ready to follow his gentle lead within a week or two (maybe less if she has been a 'daddy's girl').
I believe I saw on the other thread he said he had ordered "Teach Your Children How to Think".
It is far easier to begin teaching such if he remains married to their mother.....
If he doesn't go back (or at least appear to be trying) he will remain suspect to some extent.
I have seen JW children dismiss their unbelieving parents ......his daughter very well might be the type to go that route because she feels in her heart that is the right thing to do......
His wife is already showing some classic reactions...... pushing these buttons will only lead to more division and disharmony....and all the 5 year old is going to discern is 'its daddy's fault because daddy doesn't love and obey Jehovah and he is trying to get me to do it too" ....daddy is already cast as an 'enemy of Jehovah' in her mind.....so falling back, recreating trust allows him to replace that negativity in her mind and allows him the opportunity to lead her to critical thinking and knowing her daddy loves her, he is trustworthy, stable, predictable and strong .....he keeps her safe....daddy isn't the 'bad guy'.
It seems to me that going back is not an option for him. Again, the Watch Tower isn't God, nor does it have the strength of the law of the land. Both Anon ymous and Mamalove have custodial agreements that legally bind the jw parent not to attempt to alienate the ex-jw parent. Hopefully this will become a growing trend. But the OP will never know if he has this possibility until he consults an attorney.
IMO, protecting the kids is the goal here. Pussyfooting around a cult isn't going to help them. Taking a stand by teaching the kids critical thinking skills and giving them an opportunity to experience the real world is the only way to help them out of the indocrination.
flipper

YKNOT- I tend to agree with Jamiebowers. If Outsmartthesystem goes back to meetings just as a facade or for a " fake " reason - it really isn't doing his daughter any favors at all in the long range view. Oh sure, for awhile they'll look like the " shiny, happy , spiritual " family - allegedly - but it's not reality, it's plastic. It will only be teaching his daughter that love between family members is a CONDITIONAL love based on whether or not daddy raises his hands and answers at Watchtower studies, turns time in at the end of the month , gives his talk assignments in the ministry school, or is regular at meetings. If daddy doesn't do THOSE things, he's unlovable by Jehovah because his daughter is taught that from JW mommy and the WT society.
So for him to go along with that is feeding that JW mindset and paranoia- his daughter will just get deeper inbedded into it. I feel he doesn't have to confront anything at the moment except just reassure his daughter he loves God even though he doesn't attend meetings. He just needs to spend time with his daughter away from JW mommy and take his daughter to do fun non-Witness things and hobbies so she can see she will have fun, memorable times away from the kingdom hall.
And I do feel he should talk privately to JW mommy about badmouthing him or turning his daughter against him, if that is happening. It's time for a heart to heart with the wife
Black Sheep

Again, the Watch Tower isn't God, nor does it have the strength of the law of the land. Both Anon ymous and Mamalove have custodial agreements that legally bind the jw parent not to attempt to alienate the ex-jw parent.
The Watchtower does have strength that comes from the grip on their minds. A legally binding agreement is a tool of Satan to a JW parent.
You have to pick your fights. You can get some leverage with a JW once they realise that they have to be dishonest with you to defend their leaders, but you won't achieve that from a court order, or by antagonising them, or any other form of 'persecution'.
MrDarkKnight

You gotta let it ride and let kids do what they do. My 13 year old son got baptized at the DC. No one consulted with me or asked me. At the last minute I was informed of his decision. I had not been to a meeting in a year but I went to the DC to see the baptism. I saw him before the baptism and he was happy that I was there. I simply told him that I was happy for him and that I would support him in all that he did that was productive and legal.
He spent the last six weeks with me. He loves rap music and loves violent movies just like me. And we both LOVE team USA at the Olympics. I just smiled inside and said his time for his real decision will come, I will just be myself with him and be real with him
That really is the best way. Give your children the same courtesy as that was given you. Let them decide for themselves.
MrDarkKnight
Black Sheep

I told her that you don't have to go to the kingdom hall to serve Jehovah.
Don't tell her things ..... Just look at her reaction ..... and learn...
She then pushed away from me.....got a horrible look on her face and said sternly, "I will serve Jehovah forever. And YOU can't stop me!"
That is a trained responce and don't expect a different one next time you tell her something she doesn't want to hear.
Do the unexpected .... ask a question instead. That is how you can start teaching critical thinking skills without a book. Don't 'tell' her anything, except to remind her of something she already knows, or has said. Don't express an opinion, just ask for hers, then ask how she arrives at it. Do the same with your wife.
Don't do their thinking for them. They don't want you to, they don't need you to, and they don't like it.

....and a new wrinkle

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