I think people want to believe in an Armageddon

by dgp 34 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • NewYork44M

    Armageddon is great because it gives indivuals the opportunity to advocate their personal responsibility for their own success or failure.

    When I gave up on Armageddon I took on a responsibility for my own life that I never had before.

  • still thinking
    still thinking
    The end of the world (as we know it) appeals to non-believers as well. ...tec

    Not to me

    So some people just can't wait to see this world as it is crumble...tec

    I don't want to see our world crumble...but I would like to see improvements. And these happen every day.

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    What about biblical prophecy in general? Just because the Jehovah’s Witnesses make huge eschatological errors when they rewrite prophecy does not mean that the real biblical prophecy won’t take place. Daniel and Isaiah have made some of the most breathtakingly accurate revelations of any prophets who have ever lived. Read Daniel 53 and try not to think of Christ, for example. Every single facet of that chapter has come to pass, nor does it require any stretching or spiritualizing of the text to get it to fit.

    That’s why the WBTS tries to change the rules in mid-stream. In prophecy, spiritual elements can be used; however, the sum of the prophecy is always literal.

    I’ve tried to raise the clarion call about this here in the past, but JWs and those coming out of the religion don’t seem to know enough about prophecy to realize they’ve been duped. And those who do know about prophecy don’t tend to become ensnared in the religion to begin with. Thus, most of my posts on prophecy are met with silence.

    Prophecy isn’t easy to muster, and there are so many divisions of it that many don’t know where to begin.

    If religions teach about a “pretribulation rapture” you can pretty much avoid their prophetic insights. True, the “beast” or “antichrist” will arise; however, there is no indication that it will hold sway in all the world. The prophecies may indicate that, but remember, biblical prophecy is Jerusalem-centric. So when it says that an earthquake will be felt throughout the world, it may or may not happen. Or it may be in Jerusalem only.

    I don’t think the antichrist’s reign will extend to what is now the United States will happen because we understand certain terms are hyperbole. When the scriptures thus speak of the Romans taxing all the earth, we certainly don’t believe they taxed the ancient Mayans, do we? Well the same thing is true with prophecy.

    The more one knows about prophecy, the less one will believe JW/Watchtower theology and prophecy.

    But if you're a Jehovah’s Witness, and you can't explain the prophecies found in Daniel 2, Daniel 9 [verse 24], Ezekiel 37-39, Isaiah 11, 53; Psalm 85; Zechariah 12-14; Matthew 24; Revelation 12-16, then you need to begin hitting various religions and making sense of them.

    Don't be alarmed if they don't all teach the same things; the similarities will be greater than the differences. After awhile, you’ll see the wisdom of God in the prophetic guidance of the ancient apostles and prophets beginning to gel and within a year you’ll be wondering how you ever believed in the scriptural exegesis of the Watchtower Crowd!

    In fact, if anyone knows of any internal publications that deal with these and other prophecies, please let me know. Thanks!

  • jgnat

    I am partial to preterism myself. Leolaia's argument is the best I've read.

    My chief complaint against those who look forward to the end is their tendency to find evidence of steady decline in our old world. I don't like that world view. It breeds fatalism.

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    What type of preterism are you speaking of? I find that preterists are wholly lacking in substance. When you ask them when a prophecy is fulfilled that obviously hasn’t been, they go off in completely different directions and cannot be nailed down. The scriptures I cited are examples. I agree with the author of an article I read recently who stated that preterism is a form of mental illness. I’ve never been able to get anywhere in a discussion with a preterist.

  • jgnat

    I am sorry. I get my isms mixed up sometimes. I am of a mind that any expected prophecy was fulfilled within the generation of the first disciples, with no further application today.

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Cold Steel said:

    "I agree with the author of an article I read recently who stated that preterism is a form of mental illness."

    Wow, imagine that: someone accusing another person of mental illness to win an argument! :)

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    No, I cited scripture to win the argument (Ezekiel 38-39, Isaiah 11, Psalm 85, Zech. 12-14, Rev. 12-16). That preterists can do naught but insist they have found fulfillment shows they are in many ways deslusional. I have debated preterists before and it's like debating someone from the Flat Earth Society. As the author of said article stated:

    Starting from the premise that Jesus cannot possibly be wrong, Preterists invented an imaginary fulfillment. To Preterists, all these amazing events already occurred! They treat it as an historical occurrence despite the total lack of evidence that it has! And despite what verse 30 says about all the tribes of the earth seeing his Second Coming, an event that would shine from horizon east to horizon west (V.27). No culture on Earth has any record or recollection of these events, amazingly. Not very helpful, is it?

    Yet Preterists confidently assert the reality of events that lack even a trace of substantiation. This must be classified as delusional thinking, and delusional thinking is one of the principal attributes of psychosis. (It would be saner to conclude that Jesus was plain wrong, but that’s an impossibility for them. Psychotics cannot let go of their delusion.)

    I cited just a few scriptures that preterists are helpless to find fulfillment for. To think that Jesus' return came to pass by 76 A.D. is absurd. When did His feet touch upon the Mount of Olives and create an earthquake? When did He deliver Jerusalem? In 70 A.D. He abandoned the Holy City. And it goes on and on.

  • jgnat

    Citing scripture alone won't be enough for this crowd.

    Some of the prophecies remain unfulfilled. Also, it did not happen within the generation of the first disciples. Perhaps Jesus was wrong.

  • simon17

    I think people just intrinsically want to know how things will turn out. Maybe they don't think explicitly about it, but the thought of the world going on without them is tough. The people, the discoveries, the diasters and triumphs and wars and progress. Realizing everything will go on and you'll not be able to know anything about what happens is just sobering. So belief in an end time means you DO KNOW how it ends (and if that happens in your lifetime, even better).

    I know I sometimes think about all the things that will come to be after I die. Imagine dying just 100 years ago and missing out on all that has happened. Imagine dying in ancient times, believing the Earth was flat and that sailing too far onto the ocean horizon was certain doom, not knowing there were other suns or planets out there? Then imagine what you'll be missing when you go. Amazing and sad at the same time.

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