I remember people claiming that from the platform in the 70's/ early 80's
I remember that too Simon
Jehovah kicks a puppy
by Simon 41 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Muddy Waters
Very interesting!! Yes, what, really, was SATAN'S punishment?? Just a promise to bring him down later, a bruise to the head, at some future, far-off time. Meanwhile, come and go as you please (till getting kicked out of heaven centuries later...)
And then why confine Satan to the EARTH, the home of all Jehovah's wonderful creation and people, to be constantly tormented by this powerful, evil spirit being?? Oh yes, right, because God loves us so much he has to test everybody continually. -- People don't even treat their children this way, unless they're severely messed up.
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SimonSays
Science
The Early Snakes of the Cretaceous Period
Needless to say, the key event in snake evolution was the gradual withering
away of these reptiles' front and hind limbs. Creationists like to claim that there are no such "transitional forms" in the fossil record, but in the case of prehistoric snakes they're dead wrong: paleontologists have identified no less than four separate genera, dating back to the Cretaceous period, that were equipped with stubby, vestigial hind legs. Oddly enough, three of these snakes--Eupodophis, Haasiophis and Pachyrhachis--were discovered in the Middle East, not otherwise a hotbed of fossil activity, while a fourth, Najash, lived on the other side of the world, in South America.
Yes the ancestors of snakes did have legs and once in a while you will find a snake with a mutation that leads to it having real hind legs, though they aren't much use. The whole genetic apparatus for developing legs is still there in various snake genomes, and mutation in the gene that suppresses that development can turn it back on. The same can happen with whales.
More recently in evolutionary history a group of lizards has gone down a the same path and lost their legs. Slow-worms found in the UK are not worms, and though they look damned like them aren't really snakes either, they are legless lizards. There are also two legged lizards known that have just a front pair, like the Mexican mole lizard. -
truthseeker100
Simonsays
Corrected again by scientific new light. Damn!
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CalebInFloroda
From a scriptural philologist's and teacher of critical analysis, this account in Genesis isn't considered literal.
Even traditional Jewish, Othordox, and Catholic views agree that this narrative does not teach the origins of sin as much that it is an illustration meant to teach the Jewish view that sin is always there when humans make choices. It may suggest that early on Jews recognized that people don't have an interest in including God in their lives.
Originally the snake was not viewed as Satan the Devil. In fact, "satan" was viewed as a position often played by angels in the heavenly court when divine decisions were being argued. In Job "the satan" of the early chapters is not an evil character but someone assigned to act as "defense" for opposing arguments of reason.
While Christians eventually equated the snake of Genesis 3 with the devil, this theology itself is not based on a demand that the narrative in Genesis is anything but parable. Read at its most basic level, the snake may be a symbol for the denial or rebellion in each of us.
It was increasingly popular during and after the First and Second Awakening for the new American religions (like the Adventists who eventually became the JWs) to develop Satan into an archenemy of God, thus developing a new doctrine that a great battle between these two was being played out on the universal stage. But prior to this, even at his worst the entity known as "the Devil," evil and powerful as he was, was never equal enough to God to be considered an archenemy by both Christianity and Judaism.
And the belief that snakes were once talking animals that walked on legs was not popularized outside of the new American movements.
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freemindfade
Good OP I have had this exact debate with the wife many times, she was "deceived", it's not like she came up with some scheme on her own to try to be like god, it may have been wrong, but there was a lie before, and obviously the snake made a case, hell its a talking snake for YHWH sake!!! Some slack could of and should of been cut besides 6000 years of mass human suffering problems.
Man made book...
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WTWizard
As if this injustice wasn't bad enough, what is the punishment for? Who was insisting on keeping us in the dark regarding good and bad? And why such a harsh punishment for the "offense"? I suppose it was because joke-hova intended on enslaving the whole human race, and using us for its own selfish plans.
Along comes Satan, who wanted us all liberated. Satan did not like the way things were turning out, so He opened His big mouth and got us out of that attempt at enslavement. So, joke-hova insisted that it was a big sin for us to want to be independent (that is, not enslaved). We are bonded into this "original sin" crap, and that archetype for the perfect slave was our "redeemer". The whole thing about Jesus saving us is crap. Jesus is, and was, nothing but the archetype for the perfect slave to prepare us to be enslaved.
Given that, wouldn't it make more sense to view Satan, who tried to save us from enslavement at great cost to Himself, as our Savior and Jesus as nothing more than a fictitious entity designed to show us how to be enslaved? And joke-hova being damnation. And the whole of Christi-SCAM-ity (Judaism and Islam, too--too bad you are not getting away with it, either) are tools for enslaving the whole human race and destroying any memory of our spiritual heritage.
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Hold Me-Thrill Me
As has already been said on this thread the ancient Jews, not being idiots, did not believe the Adam and Eve account was historical or to be taken literally. This is a Christian fundamentalist teaching of relatively recent development.
2000 years ago the Jew Philo referring to the account wrote it was "types shadowing forth some allegorical truth", then he goes on to state his views on the matter.
It is natural for thinking persons to question the historicity of such accounts which are falsely promoted by conservative Christians as being literal. The Bible does not require that we check our brains at the door.
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DJS
Really, Hold Me?
1 Peter 5: Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world.
(John 8:44) You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.(Romans 16:20) The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.(2 Corinthians 2:10-11) If you forgive anyone, I also forgive him. And what I have forgiven--if there was anything to forgive--I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake, in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.
(2 Corinthians 11:14) And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
(2 Thessalonians 2:9) The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,
(Hebrews 2:14) Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil-
(1 John 3:8) He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.
(Jude 1:9) But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"
(Revelation 12:9) The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
(Revelation 12:12) Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short."
(Revelation 20:2) He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
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Vidiot
Hold me-Thrill me - "This is a Christian fundamentalist teaching of relatively recent development."
Ironic, considering their favorite Biblical theologian (the Apostle Paul) specifically spoke against following "myths"/"fables" (yes, I know he's actually talking about something slightly different in that passage in Acts, but still... :D)