think i'm becoming an atheist

by rather be in hades 43 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Hortensia

  "But just remember, don't base your belief or non-belief or whther or not prayers get "answered"."

  Why not? If you pray and pray and pray very sincerely and never get an answer, isn't it kind of logical to think no one is listening? It's not a far step from there to the realization that there is no one there to hear you.

  The thing that helped me through this dilemma was to read a lot of books about all sorts of things, religion and science especially. Also, it helped to learn about logical fallacies, and to spend more time learning critical thinking, thinking that allows you to ask questions.

  Good luck to you in your journey!
• 

  leavingwt

  You may enjoy this essay.

  http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/ingag.htm
• 

  Hortensia

  cool essay, LWT. I liked this bit:

  For the first time I understood the dogma of eternal pain -- appreciated "the glad tidings of great joy." For the first time my imagination grasped the height and depth of the Christian horror. Then I said: "It is a lie, and I hate your religion. If it is true, I hate your God."

  I never heard it put that way before -- the doctrine of eternal pain -- it is the basis of christianity, isn't it?

  What kind of god would create eternal pain? An evil one, surely.
• 

  King Solomon

  Phizzy said:

  I do not believe there is any money in it. A negative. I smash it open, being unconviced of the negative by merely shaking it, and I find no money, I see no money , cannot feel any money, and above all, cannot spend that money that "evidently" does not exist.

  Voila ! I have proved a negative.

  Nope, that's because God Himself magically made it invisible so although it was there, you didn't see it. The penny exists: He's got it.

  You also cannot prove that Santa or Satan doesn't exist: same deal of encountering excuses for why they aren't perceived, but in people's imaginations.

  Flip-side is you cannot prove they DO exist, either. That's why rationalists start with assuming as little as possible; it doesn't burden a mind down with excess baggage.
• 

  King Solomon

  Smiddy said:

  2/3rds of the world have never heard of the so called promised land/new world/paradise after Armaggeddon , and this after ALL THIS WITNESSING THAT`S TAKEN PLACE THIS 20th CENTURY ? by a small group of dedicated jehovah`s witnesses who have to continually change /modify/re-interpret/adjust/revise/transpose/substitute/metamorphose/alter/amend/revamp/rewrite,which is all the WTB&TS have done, and much more these past 130 + years

  Your entire statement boils down to being reliant to an appeal to popularity, claiming that valid is either proven or disproven based on popular opinion. If popular opinion mattered, then Justin Bieber would not outsell much-more talented musicians....

  The fact that Jesus believed in Noahs flood, is telling, but not in the way the WTS spins it, that 'if Jesus believed it you should too'... no, it means the opposite. Jesus was just another deluded man who believed the old myths and legends of man.

  Yeah, I'd even question how much of what Jesus said was what he actually said, and not subject to redacting and clean-up by canonizers, tall tales built up around a hero, etc. I suspect he was a victim of mass thinking of his time, someone who really thought he was the Jewish Messiah; if so, he'd probably be horrified to see how he became the centerpiece of the religion of the same State that massacred so many Jews, including him, just so they could absolve their filthy consciences to continue the same dirty tactics. (The old saying is you could be executed for being a Xian, and 100 years later you could be executed for NOT being a Xian.)
• 

  rather be in hades

  black sheep: lol even when i believed there were murderous bipolar spirit aliens, i still wasn't going to stop.

  nc: lately yea, the more i try to figure out what to say to my mom and just trying to finally pt the whole thing behind me...it does make me ask the questions. at the heart of it all, i'd like to live a good life. meaning, i want to do right for myself and i want to make a positive impact on people around me. whether it's something big like the tutoring work i do, or something small like giving up my seat for the elderly on the subs or helping someone carry their child and stroller up the steps at a station with no elevator. i'd like to make a positive difference and i think that's part of why i prayed so hard for god to help me love...it? him? her?

  nowadays my philosphy is: don't be a dick.

  simple right? do't be a dick and take the seat from that old person. don't be a dick and ignore the single mom struggling with a sleeping baby in a stroller. don't be a dick and drive slow in the fast lane (i'll be the first to admit road rage is strong in me :P)

  interested: i like my new found freedom. it's not a matter of prayer. life is a matter of work. sort of. i mean if you're in a place like sudan...life is a matter of simply trying to survive. in my case, living in the states and all, life is a matter of work. if you want it, work for it. everyone can be great at math, for instance, the question is, how hard will you work for it?not having to pray for shit is a blessing in and of itself. all those years i was angry at god for ignoring every prayer, well...now i understand.

  lwt: i'll check ot the essay in a second...brning stff on the stove right now lol
• 

  NewChapter

  nowadays my philosphy is: don't be a dick.

  Good philosophy!
• 

  King Solomon

  Being an antheist is not belief system, it is a conclusion drawn by lack of falsifiable evidence.

  See how common-place the God thought is? People don't even it, and assume EVERYONE is exposed to the same silly thinking to which they were exposed.

  Fact is, we are ALL born as atheists, with no concept of God. Spiritual tabula rasas, where no one has yet told them (contaminated them) with ancient myths of men.

  The idea is you accept beliefs which have a useful function, eg serve a useful predictive value as being models of reality.

  As an example, you may not believe in gravity, but it's not necessary for you to believe in it in order to fall. Gravity could care less: it doesn't think.

  In contrast, faith in God is alot like Wiley Coyote who suspends in mid-air, only falling once he realizes he is violating the laws of gravity, and is unsupported. An awareness of the law of gravity does not mean you're exempt from it. Faith in God is not a physical force, but an emotion; once aware of it's limits, you DO fall.

  That's exactly WHY the OP is here, expressing what he is: he's realized it's an illusion.

  But on a more serious note, I understand what you're experiencing....when the truth about the "WTBS" really soaked in, it was like starting all over again to questions we all ask...so I prayed that the real truth about life, God ect be made known to me...but nothing happened...

  Sounds alot like you were.... dare I say it, re-born? :)
• 

  rather be in hades

  lol thanks nc.

  i know this is gonna sound weird, but if there is no god, is there even a point to the atheist label?

  maybe i just want to say, "i'm a human dammit! nothing more, nothing less"
• 

  NewChapter

  is there even a point to the atheist label?

  Ordinarily it would not be necessary. We generally don't define ourselves by what we do not believe in. I don't believe in unicorns, fairies, magic, ghosts, one-eyed, one-horned, flying purple people eaters. But we live in a world that tries to demand we define our relationship to gods. We are asked our religion when we go to the hospital, meet new people, join the military---all kinds of settings. We are counted according to that relationship---polled---researched etc. In a world like that, it is just easier to have a word to explain where we are with that.

  Unfortunately, because so many only view the world in the context of people's relationship to gods, it may be difficult for them to grasp that it is not a belief system, anymore that not believing in unicorns is not a belief system. It is very hard to grasp---unless you don't believe in any gods. Then it just makes sense. I know it was for me when I was a believer. When I quit believing, then I just understood. The term really does not define me, my beliefs, my ethical code, my politics, my relationships---none of it. It simply means I don't believe in any gods. After that, I'm on my own.

  NC