Tina/Valentine said,
"ok then Simon, since you believe those liars. And you ignore all the attacks that have been perpetrated upon my person. DeactiVATE ME NOW. pRISCA, LARC amazing et al will be joyful. Cowards to pull shuch a low lying stunt!"
Then, Tina continues:
"check yer ego and patriarchal behavior before you point that elder finger. You are so out of touch of what Im trying to convey its pitiful. Sweetie when you give your 2 cents worth you always get change back. Please get pro help.the ones that think they dont need it need it the most.You have never impressed me,never will. Im out of here,and I know you have a part in this,no matter the self serving cliches you spew/"
The above are found at: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=22863&page=6&site=3
Tina, I am not wanting to see you go as you allege ... rather, I would prefer if we could get along. But, you keep on making such statements as you did in Simon's thread. Okay Tina/Valentine ... so, since you are talking about liars ... let's go back to when I called you a "bold faced liar" and see why I did this:
During the event between Amnesian and me, Tina commented in a thread of mine in the negative regarding the Justice series. She provided no evidence to support her claim. I responded by calling her a boldfaced liar. She again did not offer any evidence to support her claim, and again I repeated calling her a liar. Here are some excepts in chronological order, starting with the most recent exchanges on this issue, back to Tina’s comments to the Justice Series and to me when I joined the board in March 2001:
Dec 26 Tina: I called you a bold faced liar because you make silly ass allegations without one shred of evidence or the decency to make any specific point. Why? Because you cannot. Why? Because you are a boldfaced liar. I not only dare to called you a liar, you are a pure liar, through and through. You have not the guts, the intelligence, or the integrity to show otherwise. - Amazing http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=18103&site=3Tina’s specific comments about the Justice Series are bolded to make my point.
Dec 26 Amazing, Dont you dare call me a liar for my personal perceptions of what I read from you! Unreasonable? No dear, that's you w/ your excusogetics. You set up your series to exonerate yourself, over and over. Why did you need a series to admit culpability? The man doth protest too much methinks. Everyone I read had a rationalization, minimization, justification for the role played. You put that out there, dont expect everyone to, especially women to buy into that. Lol Oh here we go again, elders wives, puleeazeeeeee. You just reinforced your personal shift the responsibilty, blame game. Im sorry that in 9 yrs time you havent gotten to the level of rigorous honesty. deny the gender politics all you want, LIAR. Women WILL tell you differently. Your attack of liar just shows how weak your case is here darlin. But that's the beauty of denial. ftttttttt,T http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=18103&site=3
Dec 26 Second, Tina: You are a bold-faced liar. My Justice Series never discussed any aspect of self-defense, justification, etc. Only on one post did a flare up break out in my second publishing on JWD, because I was accused of holding the same views "now" as though I were still a JW. Yet, the one attacking me failed to realize I was posting about an event that was 15 years old. I have been out of the JWs for over 9 years. Rather, I defended an attack on me that was wholly unreasonable and 100% unjustified. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=18103&site=3Note that I did not attack Tina’s perceptions. I responded to her earlier allegations alone:
Dec 26 That was the one big reason I followed your justice series. I found it fascinating to watch you jump thru all kinds of defenses and denials about your participation as an elder. You got spanked bigtime by Amnesian. A little taste of how r/f women have felt eh? And lets not mention the continued eau de elder that reeks from your oh-so-loving counsel by scrips lol. Quite patronizing but very expected from you. What amnesian said to mulan has nothing to do with the main issue Amnesian wrote about. Lame but nice try. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=18103&site=3Tina claims that she followed my Justice Series because she was fascinated by how I jumped through defense hoops. So, let’s NOW SEE what Tina said about these series and about me in order of events from the time I moved over to JWD from H20:
3/16/01 Greetings Amazing!! I've been wondering where you've been, and missed you :> Greta to see you! Looking forward to hearing about the present situation, hugs.T ... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=3421&site=3Tina knew me from H20, and was happy to see me. No mention of arrogance, condescension, or patronization.
March 25, 2001 Hi amazing, Great post!! ... Tina http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=3669&site=3
May 19th Thank you Amazing! Your justice series is invaluable! with much appreciation,Tinahttp://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=5641&site=3So my Justice Series is invaluable and appreciated!
May 24th Excellent Amazing! Wanred to bring this back up, it needs to be seen, regards,Tinahttp://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=5880&site=3
June 8th Hi Amazing! I wanted to tell you how much I appreciate the Justice series. I've been following all of them. Just an aside, I met a Bro Love and his family when I was young in CA. Belmont cong. I was living with my Grandparents at that time. We had some fun gatherings at the Loves place. Extremely nice folks. Lots of piano playing and laughter. Anyway, thanks for the series. Regards, Tina http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=6540&site=3This thread was about how JC files are kept, because many wonder what goes into them. Here again, Tina expresses appreciation.June 29th Hi Amazing None . I was never privy to the elders info. Nor the elderettes. I dont remember seeing any peculiar behavior.(although I had blinders on about many things in the org most of the time I was in) But due to the secret nature of this type of crime, Im sure there are many more than we think. Regards,T http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=7595&site=3&page=2Again appreciation expressed. Also Tina claims to have met Brother “Love” from one of the Justice posts, a brother whom I have never identified.
June 29th Yeru, You are absolutely right! They don't have a soup kitchen for their own poor,and believe me there are many in that org. I read another article a while back -I forgot what the situation was(not kobe) and it crowed and patted itself on the back for how it 'assisted'. Showed a pic of a truck with the wts insignia. And when reading the article-it said they looked for Jw's to help. ... What they did and they should have been embarrassed to show a pic like that is pass up any and all the ailing, elderly,mothers with babies and children on this same road,because they weren't JW's. DISGUSTING How do they sleep at night? When I read their article l,I felt ashamed all over again, that I was ever any part of that org. hugs,Tina http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=7159&site=3Here Tina talks to Yeru on this Justice post, expressing similar sympathies, but does not make any negative remarks about the post.June 28th Greetings, Boy did I see a power and control struggle going on in this story! I'm most definitely with MD, Rcat, et al on this one! It was harrassment. I can see the elders patriarchal pride was challenged/threatened by this girls action. The response WAS vindictive and served as a 'salve' for the elders wounded pride. THAT took precedence over evrything in this story. A young womans feelings and rights were so clearly violated . Regards,Tina Edited by - Tina on 28 June 2001 6:52:50 http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=7500&site=3This was Justice #15 where I received flake because I was accused of defending myself as thought I was still an Elder. I tried to explain that the event was over 15 years ago, and that in no way do I condone it – I was only giving my views as they existed in an earlier time.June 28th Evening Amazing, I did not bring up cedibility in my post. Where did you see that? It most certainly wasnt there. And why would you stop posting such a fine series? Did I request that as well? NO,I didnt. I've read every'Justice" post. I appreciate the information and true life pathos. It goes with the territory that on occasion, some issues are going to emotionally 'jerk' at us. That some will see not only an issue in question, but underlying ones as well. A subtext. I most certainly appreciate the candor of the series. I commend you for such forthright honesty. I can see where presenting some of these scenarios are often painful for you. It takes a lot of fortitude to say-Here's what happened". Sometimes I went with the partyline, most times I tried to be a cushion against the hardliners. You were in a tough position. I do hope you continue to post your series. I never intimated for you to stop....possibly a slight 'over-reaction' on your part as well? Again,thanks for the "amazing' series. I look forward to more! warm regards, Tina Edited by - Tina on 29 June 2001 10:3:47 http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=7500&site=3&page=2Here in the same post, Tina made sure to express appreciation, and understood the position I was in at the time and now.[quote]June 29th Hi Tina: You are correct in that you didn't make some of the allegations that I cited. When I read your post is came at the end of several supporting MommyDark who took a harsh stand with me, as though I was trying to justify something about JW Elder and Watch Tower justice. Far from it, I was, as you stated, simply stating how it was. So, I lumped together a number of items. In my supplement to Justice #15, I clarified more of this. But MommyDark took some things and created misunderstanding, and made allegations based on her own embellishments.
No, I don't plan to stop the series. It was more of a rehtorical poiunt I was making. The context of these series is that they took place in the 1980s, and therefore, I am far removed from them. I culd never, even with training and the best of experience, even engage in this kind of religious court system ever again.
I think you made a good point in stating that maybe some of the Justice posts strike a strong chord with some, and perhaps MommyDark was also overreacting, and forgetting where I am at now as opposed to what I was then. It is an easy transition to make, and one that I do myself at times. Thanks again for posting back your thoughts and kindly stating things. – Amazing http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=7500&site=3&page=2
Here in another thread about taking a poll, Tina responded and mentions “Elderettes” a term among JWs to express disrespect toward the wives of Elders ... the kind that Amnesian claims she was. Yet, when I debated with Amnesian about this, I was seen as anti-feminists.
[quote] Sept 8 Hi amazing, Thanks to you and all for the data! I have a question. What if an individual just leaves the org. No meetings or visits w/ any elders at all. Are they simply marked inactive? And how long do they hold on to the publisher card of such an individual? Do copies go to HQ? I'm pretty sure this was asked before, but I can't find the info. Thanks in advance.luv to all,T http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=11293&site=3&page=2
My Point in this Thread about Tina: This is a classic example of why I called Tina a liar. Her earlier expressions on JWD and on H20 demonstrate the utmost appreciation. She admitted reading all the Justice posts and found them highly valuable. Then in the stroke of a key ... Amnesian shows up ... and Tina’s opinion changes 180 degrees. That is her right. The only thing I find remarkable is how she lies, and distorts the actual history of her comments to my posts ... then has the gall to say in the Amnesian debacle that she found the Justice Series “That was the one big reason I followed your justice series. ”I found it fascinating to watch you jump thru all kinds of defenses and denials about your participation as an elder.” Earlier, before Amnesian, she was defending me by saying “. I've read every 'Justice" post. I appreciate the information and true life pathos. It goes with the territory that on occasion, some issues are going to emotionally 'jerk' at us. That some will see not only an issue in question, but underlying ones as well. A subtext. [b]I most certainly appreciate the candor of the series. I commend you for such forthright honesty. I can see where presenting some of these scenarios are often painful for you. It takes a lot of fortitude to say-Here's what happened".
[b]Why bring this up now?[b] Because, even when Simon asked her to knock off the attacks, she keeps on saying things that are not true. Also, Simon's recent post and Tina's nasty comments about me, Prisca, and Larc were uncalled for and untruthful. She is the ""only one"" I recall that I ever called a liar on these forums. Although I felt the onus was on her to back up her claims ... others felt that the onus was on me to back up my allegation that she lied. Therefore, I have backed it up. Nuff said.