by exwhyzee 81 Replies latest jw friends
We all memorized the definition of faith... Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for...yadda yadda.
It seems like more and more as time goes by and our scientific knowledge base grows, we need less and less faith and fewer things can be attributed to God.
Do you think we need faith or is faith just a word we use to feel OK about being too lazy to keep looking for the answers ?
What does faith mean to you now?
Faith is trust or belief in someone. Not their existence, per say. But trust in them... in their promises, in their words, in their deeds, in what they tell you.
You put faith in your doctor... that he is prescribing the correct treatment.
You put faith in your spouse... that they are truthful and loyal with you.
You put faith in God and His Son... that they speak truth, and keep their word to you.
We do not have an easy time putting faith (or belief) in what we cannot measure with our physical senses. So learning to listen in spirit, and put faith in the Spirit, is like learning to use an almost forgotten sense or unworked muscle. Takes practice.
Peace,
tammy
Faith in the love of my family and friends. Dispite my mistakes.
The 'biblical: idea of faith i do not relate to any more.
faith means boldly going where no one has gone before
soft +gentle
that might be a leap of faith.
F..Darn, were's my bold and brazen Spock voice?..smile
eva luna - lol yes.
You put faith in your doctor... that he is prescribing the correct treatment.
You put faith in your spouse... that they are truthful and loyal with you.
You put faith in God and His Son... that they speak truth, and keep their word to you
You can put your faith in your doctor because you can meet him for yourself and because there is verifiable proof that he is who he says he is and is qualified to do what he says he can. The faith part is really trust. You trust that he is going to do his job to the best of his abilities while he is treating you.
You put faith in your spouse after you have grown to trust him/her enough to marry them. You can see for yourself what they are like. You trust by reason of information you have gathered yourself, that they will continue to be the same person you have come to know and love.
To put faith in God and his Son is completely based upon unprovable information. Most people would need more solid information before buying a washing machine but they base their whole life around information that is sketchy and unprovable and is highly subjetct to iterpretation . It seems more honest/accurate to say that faith is more often than not based upon a person really really wanting someting to be so because by "virtue" of faith, so much of the unknown (so far) in life can be explained away with magical thinking. Faith comes into play when one has nothing provable to base their beliefs in and don't want to look any furthur or because one needs an answer right now to lean upon and they want to feel smug and selfsatisfied about it even though they have no real proof.
For hundreds of years so much of the unknown was attributed to God. Each time science is able to explain things that were once unexplainable, there is less and less that is attributable to him. What does that say about Faith and the existence of God as we have come to understand him? Where would we be if those who made scientific discoveries would have just stuck to their faith based beliefs and didn't bother looking any furthur. JW's benefit from all those who don't just sit back and say "God is going to fix everything" but who go out and look for answers that help us now. The Bible tells us how we got here and how the earth was formed and why things are the way they are but that's not enough for some people. They need more detail before they have faith. They literally dig for information, and personally discover, exchange and share information with others rather than blindly accept what was said before. Are they lacking in faith?
exwhyzee
I was, over the last few days, re-reading the God delusion because I have been critcising him a lot recently and felt I ought to give him another chance. Well I came accross your argument above. I remember when I first read the book that Richard Dawkins' philosophy made a a huge impact on me and helped me get my head out of what the society was teaching. So I would recommend reading this book.
But now in re-reading I found that Richard Dawkins argues for Darwinism from principles of utilitarianism which he then extends to believers to belittle their faith. But most believers here are not solely utilitarian as you will find. I just thought that this basic distinction may help to ease frustration but still allow for heated debate. eidt: on the other hand I am not that well versed in philosophy and have only an armchair understanding, so please disagree and fire away.
You can put your faith in your doctor because you can meet him for yourself and because there is verifiable proof that he is who he says he is and is qualified to do what he says he can. The faith part is really trust. You trust that he is going to do his job to the best of his
abilities while he is treating you.
Yes. It does not work differently with God or His Son. You cannot meet them in the flesh, but you can hear/know them in spirit. If what you learn from them is true, then you put your faith in them even more. So also, trust.
You might start out trusting your doctor based on the fact that he is a doctor and is supposed to know what he is doing. But it would be an untried faith. Once you start listening more to him and his instructions, and these prove to be true and helpful, your faith in your doctor grows.
Same thing.
You put faith in your spouse after you have grown to trust him/her enough to marry them. You can see for yourself what they are like. You trust by reason of information you have gathered yourself, that they will continue to be the same person you have come to know
and love.
It works much the same with God and Christ. You love and put your faith in Christ, due to His words and deeds, and since He is the image of God, then you love and trust God as well. You put your faith in what/who you know, because what/who you know has shown that He is TRUE.
Faith is knowing, exwhyzee, and it is based upon real evidence (even if that evidence is only discernable to you).
There is a difference between belief that someone exists... and faith IN that one.
To put faith in God and his Son is completely based upon unprovable information. Most people would need more solid information before buying a washing machine but they base their whole life around information that is sketchy and unprovable and is highly subjetct to
iterpretation .
It seems more honest/accurate to say that faith is more often than not based upon a person really really wanting someting to be so because by "virtue" of faith, so much of the unknown (so far) in life can be explained away with magical thinking. Faith comes into play
when one has nothing provable to base their beliefs in and don't want to look any furthur or because one needs an answer right now to lean upon and they want to feel smug and selfsatisfied about it even though they have no real proof.
I cannot speak for everyone, but this is not true of me. I love the unknown in the universe, and unravelling it, and have no doubt that we will learn much about these unknown things as science and its tools grow. There is nothing out there that I fall back to thinking God snapped his 'fingers' and it came into being. Science and its discoveries are an unfolding 'the how'. I certainly do not need an answer right now. My faith is not based nor dependent upon such things, nor threatened when a 'how' is discovered. My faith is dependent upon Christ... the truth in Him and His teachings (no one who lives and speaks such truths can also be a lie), and His presence in my life (his voice, his spirit, and the answers/help he has given to me).
For hundreds of years so much of the unknown was attributed to God. Each time science is able to explain things that were once unexplainable, there is less and less that is attributable to him. What does that say about Faith and the existence of God as we have come to
understand him?
It says that people who have placed their faith in a 'god of the gaps' are going to have to put their faith in Christ, and His Father (as some have)... or turn a blind eye to science (as some do)... or lose their faith altogether when the (false) basis of their faith falls out from beneath them (as some have).
God is as He is... He does not conform to how we understand Him. How many people know you in person... and yet show that they do not understand you? This does not in any way change who you are. So too, with God.
Where would we be if those who made scientific discoveries would have just stuck to their faith based beliefs and didn't bother looking any furthur. JW's benefit from all those who don't just sit back and say "God is going to fix everything" but who go out and look for
answers that help us now. The Bible tells us how we got here and how the earth was formed and why things are the way they are but that's not enough for some people.
The bible gives us simple stories that all sorts of people in all sorts of times can get the gist of. Not just those with phd's in the different sciences.
Christ did not sit back and wait for His father to fix everything. He worked. He served. He led by example. There were things He did not concern Himself with, yes. (politics for one) But He did concern Himself with how we treated one another, with the poor and the burdened and the hungry and the sick. He taught people to go out and DO something about those. Nor does love for another permit one to sit back and do nothing if they need you.
They need more detail before they have faith. They literally dig for information, and personally discover, exchange and share information with others rather than blindly accept what was said before. Are they lacking in faith?
Depends. Might have nothing to do with faith at all. Blind acceptance is not faith though, in any case. Faith is based upon evidence. Upon something 'heard'. I do not think Paul meant something that you hear from others (that would be a jumble to unravel the truth of, lol)... but rather something heard in spirit, from Christ.
Peace,
tammy
Faith is the most abused of words. It means whatever a beleiver wants it to mean.
To me faith is mind rot. Its a decision to believe something for which there is insufficient evidence.
Having faith is to make a virtue out of a vice.
