by wasblind 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
You are welcome, wasblind.
However, it would not surprise me if the WTBTS writers actually say that someday (if they should read it here or think of it themselves)...if you can make up the "overlapping generations", that would not be really such a wild leap into hyperspace.
When a failed prophecy fails, and ones are "stumbled", it is god's way of testing the integrity of those as to their faith.
When a failed prophecy fails, and ones are "stumbled", it is god's way of testing the integrity of those as to their faith.
I actually heard some elders (even a circuit overseer) say in late 1975 that they thought Jehovah was going to delay the end out until 1977 or so just to see who would fall away over the failure of the 1975 prediction.
Wait on Jehovah to sort out the problems, it's just a test of your faith/loyalty, Jehovah never promised perfection in His organization....
Good Morning Wuz!..
All the JW`s I know claimed the WBT$ has never Prophecied anything..
Then they tell you the " End is Near "..
They`re Bat Shit Crazy ..
And..
Willing to Lie for the WBT$ at the Drop of a Hat..
........................... 
...OUTLAW
Ah, yes, the red herring fallacies of “never claimed to be inspired” and making mistakes “like the prophets and apostles.”
These are empty-headed arguments. They prove only one thing, that the person raising them is trying to take attention away from the real discussion at hand.
In reply to the Witnesses and all JW/Governing Body supporters , I write the following:
“Never Claimed to Be Inspired”
Which of the prophets or the apostles ever claimed to be inspired? The answer? None.
True, Paul writes that the Jewish Scriptures were “inspired by God,” but he does not have the Christian doctrine of Biblical inspiration in mind. The word “theopneustos” merely means that God instilled or [literally “breathed”] his message into the heart or mind of the composer. The Christian doctrine of Biblical inspiration refers to what texts show “proofs” that they make up the canon of Scripture. The Jews have no such teaching for all their instruction comes from God, written or oral. And the first-century Christians had no concept of creating a new library of books to add to the Hebrew texts.
At 2 Timothy 3:16-17, Paul was speaking of the Jewish view of inspiration which does not include canonization or validation as authentic and irreversible by Church authority. It merely means as one reads in 2 Peter 1:20-21, that the instruction is not the whim of “human will” but that the person was God’s channel of instruction when they either spoke or wrote. Because they were “moved by the Holy Spirit” to do so, their instruction should not be viewed as merely coming from mortals but should be obeyed as coming “from God.”
When the JWs use the excuse that they cannot be held accountable for their mistaken beliefs of yesterday by stating they “never claimed to be inspired,” what do they mean? What does the word “inspired” mean in this particular argument? That their teaching was never claimed to be “directly from Jehovah” as in receiving an unquestionable, validated message from the spirit realm.
Think about that for a moment. That doesn’t mean anything . Why? Simple, because Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe God speaks to people that way any longer. Anyone among them who would dare make such a claim would instantly be labeled either mentally ill, a liar, or under the influence of demons.
No, instead they claim to be God’s spirit-directed organization, the one channel of “Truth.” According to Jewish teaching, and what Paul and the author of 2 Peter had in mind, that’s the same thing as “inspiration.”
Paul once makes the claim that he believes he is teaching in accordance with God’s Spirit. This is the claim the Governing Body makes of all its teachings, that when they teach or instruct, they “have God’s Spirit” and that’s why their teaching should be followed. (1 Corinthians 7:40) If that’s not inspiration, then what is it?
And again, who cares what it is or isn’t. No one in the Bible claimed their prophecies, predictions, or words were “inspired” of God either. They may have claimed to speak for God, but that is no different from what the Witnesses did when they taught the end was coming in 1914, or when they taught that the generation was something else than what they claim now, or any of the other teachings about what Jehovah was supposed to do at such and such time. Did Jehovah’s Witnesses ever claim that they did not have God’s Holy Spirit at any time when they taught any of their doctrines? No. They always claim to speak under the direction of Jehovah’s Spirit.
So what does that “never claim to be inspired” line mean? Nothing really.
“Prophets and Apostles Made Mistakes”
A mistake is one thing. Having a wrong expectation is also something different. Claiming that they have the one and true understanding of something to the point of disfellowshipping (excommunicating) anyone who does not agree with their present understanding is totally different.
In my day many people were disfellowshipped because they believed that the Governing Body was wrong about its understanding regarding the generation of 1914 and the closing of the heavenly calling in 1935. Today if any of Jehovah’s Witnesses cling to the teaching that these people were told to accept under penalty of disfellowshipping, these present-day JWs would be expelled. Why? The Governing Body no longer teaches what it did about the generation of 1914 and the heavenly calling ending in 1935 as it once did.
Jehovah’s Witnesses easily label these past understandings as “mistakes”—you know, like ‘the prophets and apostles made.’ But if it was that simple, then why is the present understanding always to be accepted under penalty of being marked apostate? It’s not inspired of God? Today’s teaching from the Governing Body can easily be tomorrow’s “mistake,” right?
Are there any incidents in the Bible where people are expelled from God’s people due to rejecting an understanding which is not inspired? Did anyone get expelled from one of these “mistakes” or “wrong expectations” the prophets and apostles had?
“Well, OGD, these people who got expelled in your day were running ahead of God’s teaching authority,” you might argue.
But this “authority” wasn’t inspired, remember? It never claimed to be, or so you said.
Besides, the understanding the Witnesses had in the past regarding these things, these “mistakes” and “wrong expectations” that were uninspired—did they come from God or from man?
If they came from Jehovah God, then it was right that these people got expelled from the congregation. But if this came from Jehovah, why did the Governing Body dismiss it?
If it came from man, then why did these people get disfellowshipped? Isn’t it wrong to adhere to the traditions of man and claim they come from God?
Nope, this argument doesn’t mean anything either. It sounds good on the outside—because you know what, you’re right, Jehovah’s Witnesses. You never did claim to be inspired and you have made mistakes and have had wrong expectations.
Would you be part of a religion that claimed it required its followers to accept non-inspired messages under pain of excommunication? Would you join one that had a history of mistaken, wrong expectations? "New light," huh? What's wrong with the light you had yesterday? If the light you had yesterday came from Jehovah, why are you getting a "new" one to replace what comes from God?
Let that "test" your "faith"!
wasblind says: 'THE GENERATION CHANGE ALREADY TOPPED THE CAKE'
Even the man Job would take serious issue with WT's 'new light one generation' understanding. As the book of Job itself says at Job 42:16: 'And Job continued living after this a hundred and forty years and came to see his sons and his grandsons--four generations.'
It is said that within 140 years Job was blessed to live long enough to see his sons have children, their sons's sons have children and their sons, son's have children.....four generations within 140 years.
freshstart Wait on Jehovah to sort out the problems, it's just a test of your faith/loyalty, Jehovah never promised perfection in His organization....
So very true. Jehovah diliberately fed us fase hopes to test if we were in the org. because we loved him - or in it for what we could get out of him.
It's a no-brainer, we were in it for what we could get. That's generaly the way with all living creatures. You would think the Big Daddy had all ready worked out how his creation functioned. Did he really need to subject his chosen people to all all these tests?
That's right, Gladiator...The only thing such a test would show is that people will remain loyal to an organization that never gets things right.
"But Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and do great works in your name, and stick to your only True organization even though you caused it to constantly teach wrong expectations in your name?"
So what if you pass the test of loyalty? Who wants to be proud of being loyal to an organization that claims:'What we said was true yesterday was wrong and needs to be corrected today'?
Loyalty to the truth in the face of change is one thing. Loyalty to change in the face of truth, well---
The god ate my homework.
