Wuz:
Does that mean folks who fornicated can now claim to the Elders they were only makin' Agape love ????
That way they won't feel as if they actually took part in fornication
Bwahahaha!
The latest on blood
by PrincessCynic 59 Replies latest watchtower medical
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palmtree67
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wallsofjericho
Matthew 5:27, 28:
"YOU heard that it was said, ‘You must not commit adultery.' 28 But I say to YOU that everyone that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart
Bobcat - nice use of those scriptures. Why have I never thought of that?? and how about "not even touching the unclean thing?"
to me this whole blood fraction thing is meaningless... MEANINGLESS!
You can't use fractions for anything except medicinal treatments anyway. No car accident victims or stabbing victims are rushed to a hospital for fractions. at the very least they will require blood compoonents TM (RBC/Platelets, Plasma)
unless you are pregnant and getting an RH injection there is almost no chance you will EVER be questioned about fractions. the allowance of fractions is pointless except to crack the door open on blood components and whole blood transfusions. And in my opinion this is absolutely happening!
My experience with blood was rediculous. Hemoglobin is an acceptable fraction but Red Blood Cells (RBC) are not??? Hemoglobin IS RBC !! all RBC are is Hemoglobin 99% contained within a bag (cell wall) made of a little fat and cholesterol (1%). So Hemo is okay but the little bag isn't? Since when is 99% of something a fraction anyway???
so anyhow, I signed papers for RBC right in from of my family who was convinced the whole time it was just hemoglogin. they were so happy hemoglobin was a conscience matter. Ya right, well I did sign for Hemoglobin, just delivered in little bags of cholesterol and fat :)
on top of the the watchtower says that ANY fraction of the 4 compoonents is acceptable. ANY FRACTION. well the RBC cell wall is a fraction so there
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respectful_observer
"Fractions" -----> "Derivitives"
"Noo Light TM "
Have they ever realized that such a large percentage of JWs might not carry a current "Medical Directive" is because deep down they disagree with what's printed inside? Or is it just willfull ignorance?
I haven't carried one in at least 5 years, and neither has my wife...even though she claims she'd NEVER take blood...even though she readily admits the underpinnings of the policy make no sense.
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Bobcat
TD asked:
None of my business, but back when you used to feel this way, how did you live? Did you get your childhood immunizations? Did you ever have a tetanus shot after an injury?
I don't mind. Childhood was non-WT, so it was a non-issue. Same for when I was in the service. Afterwards and prior to 2000(?) I avoided all blood products per "company" (read WT) policy . That is, I say I avoided, but I was actually pretty healthy. So it would probably be more honest to say the issue never arose for me. Likewise for the family. (Even with the wife during childbirth. The scariest parts of childbirth came when they became teenagers. :)
It has been since 2000 (I think) when "company" policy changed and this required actually having to think these things thru.
It's interesting how I don't remember any discussions amongst JWs over what position to take. It was simply a non-issue, maybe comparable to Burger King adding a few extra items on their menu. I think from the platform the leaning was towards a favorable position in connection with fractions. Some of the reasonings seem so non-sensical now. (e.g. comparing fractions to the coconut on a macaroon cookie, or that these fractions can be found elsewhere in nature, so that makes then OK.)
I think the thing that got me started thinking the most was when an older sister had to go to the hospital for (something - I don't quite remember) and her blood count got real low. She wouldn't take any EPO. (I think that is what they were offering her) She objected to it because of the way it was/is manufactured. One of the HLC brothers called me all exasperated because the sister would not budge from her 'conscientious' choice not to take the stuff. The HLC brother was telling me on the phone how there was nothing more he could do for the sister until she becomes more reasonable. And I was sitting there listening and thinking, 'I thought this was a conscience matter and we are supposed to support the friends with whatever decision they have made in their hearts.' From the sound of the HLC brother, you would have thought that TAKING fractions was the new policy. (And judging by the OPs discussion, it may be.)
Another factor that got me thinking more was that, as an elder, the friends would want me to sign their blood card/DPA. This posed a conscience problem that might take some explaining. For example, if I wanted whole blood, none of the friends would support that as my choice. Therefore, if I viewed fractions as the same as whole blood, how could I sign their cards, in effect telling them that I would support their choice to take them? To me, the whole 'conscience' matter concerning fractions raised problems with my conscience.
But to make a long story a little shorter, this got me thinking about what Bible principles might apply - that is, IF whole blood was actually forbidden. Thus, the above verses is what I came up with. And if blood were actually "clearly" forbidden like the "company" says, then I truly believe that the principles contained in the above verses would necessarily rule out fractions also. (One of the best illustrations I ever heard was to ask how far a car thief would have to disassemble a car before it became a conscience matter.)
In time I ran into more expansive thinking on the subject (including threads you have commented on here, maybe especially your comments, but some others too). Also, the word games that the "company" plays with this subject started becoming more apparent. All that changed the entire picture for me.
(Incidentally, the more I think about this, the more I remember having to worry about the makeup of hotdogs and plywood and dogfood - all that mental energy wasted on - what? - Nothing! Nothing that a new WT policy couldn't just wipe away later.)
There was something about Acts 15:29 I was going to bring up one day that I was hoping you and "Terry" might comment on. But I'll save that for another time and thread.
I hope this (rather long-winded) explanation answers your question.
Take Care
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straightshooter
It used to be that once a year advanced directives (blood cards) were handed out and everyone scrabbled to have their forms signed. Now it appears that these forms are not automatically handled out. Instead a talk is given encouraging ones to keep up-to-date forms. But I knew that jws would not do it.
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Bobcat
Walls Of Jericho: (clever name, by the way)
How about "not even touching the unclean thing?"
That is a good one too! I'm going to add it to my little list.
I tried showing these verses to a brother one time and told him I didn't think the Bible would allow for fractions. I just got the blank stare. It's funny how Heb 4:12 says that 'the word of God is alive and exerts power', but to most of the friends I think that should say "the word of the WT."
And I agree whole-heartedly with your discussion of fractions/hemoglobin.
Take Care
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DesirousOfChange
It is a conscience matter. Our entire relationship with god is a conscience matter.
But if you make the wrong conscientious decision -- they DA you and shun you.
So it goes with a "conscience matter". Whose conscience?
Doc
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ballistic
I find this whole thing disturbing as my father died without blood in the operating theatre. The blood booklet back then said "he who is faithfull in little is faithfull in what is much."
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Shawn10538
Thanks for posting this. It is new to me. I am curious why you had a meeting with the HLC. Maybe PM me and tell me if you want.
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wasblind
NEEDLESS DEATHS AT THE HANDS OF THE WTS
Witnesses often think that those who sacrificed their lives by refusing blood
were noble
I think not
The Mislead Witness, who died because they were forbidden even a fraction of life saving fluid
died a needless death, why ???, because the reason ( Prohibition on fractions , not in the Bible ) have been changed
Christs reason ( our salvation ) is still the same, has never changed, so his death was not in vain