Why did Lazarus Pay for his sins twice?

by criticalwitness 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Glander

    Please cite the scripture that says Lazarus died again after he was resurrected. I have never found one.

    This explains the weired yiddish guy in New Jersey who keeps slapping his head and saying , "Oy! OY! so kill me already!"

  • OldGenerationDude

    Though there is no Biblical text that says that Lazarus died, there is historical evidence that the man to whom the Gospel tradition attributes this resurrection did in fact die.

    While the debate between Jews and Christians may still continue as to whether or not there was a resurrection, the individual (whose real name is Eleazar--"Lazarus" is a Latinized form of the Hebrew name) is a historical one. He was one of the first Christian bishops, known to history as Lazarus of Bethany.

    While there are many religious legends regarding Lazarus of Bethany, with both the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church at odds to where he served as Bishop, the historicity of Lazarus of Bethany is affirmed not only by the Early Church Fathers but by both Jewish and Islamic historians and religious traditions. While only considered a "possible" or "likely" spot of the original burial place, there is a spot in the West Bank town al-Eizariya revered by Catholics, Orthodox, and Muslims as the location of the tomb of Lazarus. So regardless of the argument about the validity of the claim that Jesus of Nazareth resurrected Eleazar/Lazarus of Bethany after being dead for four days, the conclusion of the religions that venerate him as saint is that Lazarus did in fact die (thus the reason for the site of a tomb connected with him).

    Again the problem with the Governing Body view is that it is developed from a theology that strives to ignore the fact that the very texts which it venerates as inspired is part of a dichotomy with the religious history or tradition that supplies the basis for its exegesis. A denial of this essential dichotomy or ignorance of it causes the problematic conclusions being discussed here.

  • JWOP

    I asked the same question. Answer I got was that Lazarus paid for his sins with his death. But since Jesus hadn't died yet if Lazarus sinned again then he would become imperfect again. So Lazarus must have sinned after being ressurected and before Jesus died.

    Which just sounds like a stupid loophole Gods lawyers came up with after the fact.

    SO I ASK:
    Why does it sound like a stupid loophole? Why is it so far fetched to assume that Lazarus sinned again after his resurrection?

  • Sulla

    Interesting to see that OldGenerationDude has thoroughly answered this question twice now, but nobody seems to notice.

  • binadub

    You might have the question about people who die on the operating table and or brought back to life, or who are revived by cardiopulminory resuscitation or other "near-death" experiences.


  • Quarterback

    Lazarus came back to life during his resurrection but was later on invited to be part of the 144K, Heavenly Class. According to the WT teaching, such ones are considered to be, "Sons of God", and must be faithful until death to be part of the Heavenly Resurrection.

  • djeggnog


    according to j dub doc the wages sins pays is death meaning to them death covers your debt of sin

    No, this is inaccurate. What "doc"? I suspect you didn't understand what it was you read, but I need to know what the "doc" it was you read said, because what you say here makes no sense to me.

    You clearly do not understand that the statement, "the wages sin pays is death" does not mean that "death covers your debt" any more so than "a painting job pays $15/hour" means that "$15/hour covers what you owe." When ever does a worker owe money to his or her boss for the work he or she does for the boss? At Romans 6:23, sin is being personified; sin isn't a real person and it cannot literally pay anyone any wages as if it were a real person. Having read the other messages posted to this thread, it is clear that you are not alone in not understanding what this verse is really saying.

    Let's say you were contracted by your union as an employee of the City of Miami, you are entitled to payment for the painting work you do for your employer, the City of Miami.

    Painting is a work, and typically the payment one receives for such work is money, so ...

    the wages the painting pays is money.

    As you can see, painting is not a debt and you do not owe anything for it, but you are owed "wages" (payment) for all of the painting work you do.

    So money is the payment for the painting work you do.

    Likewise, you were sold to sin and became a slave of sin, you are entitled to payment for the work you do for your master, sin.

    Similarly, sin is a work, and the payment you receive for such work is death, so ...

    the wages sin pays is death.

    Hopefully, you can see, sin is not a debt and you do not owe anything for sin, but you are owed "wages" (payment) for all of the sinful work you do.

    So death is the payment for the sinful work you do.

    when lazarus died did he not pay his debt?

    No, he didn't. What "debt" would Lazarus need to pay? In this sense, sin would be the debtor here, not Lazarus. Sin isn't owned by Lazarus and it wasn't sold to Lazarus; Lazarus was sold into sin, which means sin owned Lazarus.

    so when jesus resctd him why did he die again?

    Because he was a sinner, the offspring of Adam, which doesn't change because he died. He was still Lazarus, a descendant of Adam and the brother of Martha and Mary.

    and of what?


    when jesus brought him back did he creat or recreat an imperfect being on the sinful road to destruction?

    Yes; Jesus never promised anyone that dies would be resurrected to life again here on earth in a perfect body or that he or she would not continue to be a descendant of Adam, even though Lazarus was recognized by his sisters after his resurrection as their brother. Neither did Jesus promise that any human being upon his or her being resurrected would put on immortality.

    It isn't even possible for a human being to be given immortality, for our bodies are mortal, and are designed to be sustained by breathing and to be energized by the food we eat, period. I'd recommend that you do more than a little research at a public library on the composition of the human body so that you won't ever say such a thing again.

    However, new human bodies will need to be recreated/reconstructed for the majority of those resurrected during Christ's Millennial Reign though since these folks will have been dead for much longer than four days. The promise of eternal life to obedient mankind doesn't mean that anyone will be granted immortality.

    Furthermore, had Jesus recreated Lazarus as a perfect man, this would not have been in a position to die and receive a spiritual body as the rest of Jesus' disciples that had been baptized in holy spirit will have received and not only would Lazarus still be a human being today, but he would have been be only perfect human being on earth during the 1,000-year Judgment Day, and way before the final test after the 1,000 years had ended.

    did he put sin back into him?

    No; Lazarus inherited sin from Adam so Jesus merely resurrected the man in the same sinful condition in which he had been since birth and before his death.


  • Witness My Fury
    Witness My Fury

    DJdumbnogg: Doc = doctrine, (not document) I didnt read anything else you wrote beyond that sheer example of dumbness.

    ....waits for the "I knew that already and was just playing with him" bullshit excuses.

  • mP

    One line of thought by some is that Lazarus is a retelling of the Osirus story. There are many similarities in the name and story.


    Like jesus and the sun, Osiris in this case dies in winter, and we can see this is acknowledged by the Roman Catholic Church and his feastday which has been adjusted to be compatible with the Winter Solstice and the story in the gospels.


    Lazarus Saturday (Eastern Churches)
    July 29 (2005 Martyrologium Romanum)
    December 17 (Western Churches)

    In both cases the feast day is next to the winter or summer solstice. Once you realise that the sun dies in winter and rises again, and becomes stronger than the cold on the Spring equinox its obvious why xmas and easter are placed on their respective dates.

    The sun dies for us every winter and rises to save us from the cold and death. The salvation that Jesus is offers, as the sun is salvation and saving of our home planet from the cold so we can grow food in spring. Lets not forget all these stories are written by northern hemispherers.

  • blondie

    So I'm wondering, were the deaths of all the Christians ( or not Christians) named in the bible recorded?

    What about Dorcas, Eutychus, the widow's son (2), Jairus' daughter, Shunammite's son, the man who touched Elisha's bones, all recorded as being resurrected, 2nd deaths recorded?

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