Does MAGIC exist or doesnt it? Sick of crap from WT

by hamsterbait 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  glenster

  I don't know proof God is or isn't. I know faith--a hope for a possible God.
  For the basic God concept: Mortimer Adler, "How to Think About God." Beyond
  that, ideas of interventions, etc., are likewise faith.

  Regarding noone sane, etc.--not true. Some posts here wonder if the JWs
  leaders are delusional schizophrenics, so inadvertently provide an excuse for
  them as not culpable. I don't know any evidence for that and a mountain of it,
  from Russell in the late 1880's onwards, that they're feigning exclusiveness/
  lying to sell literature.
  http://gtw6437.tripod.com/index.html

  (I likewise see no reason to think Popoff was schizophrenic and thought Jesus
  spoke to him, only evidence Popoff feigned exclusiveness with a radio receiver
  in his ear to get more money in the collection plate.)

  Regarding debunked, etc., there's a range possible in Abrahamic faith.

  Orthodox/conservative (and the JWs leaders are that) believers are more prone
  to defend their outdated interpretations of an old text. The biggest percentage
  of orthodox/conservative in an Abrahamic religion is in Islam--most Muslims be-
  lieve the one miracle for the religion is the writing of the Qur'an.

  Liberal/progressive/reform (S.Colbert, Obama, etc.) believers are more prone
  to keep up to speed with current knowledge (evolution, homosexuality, etc.),
  which I'd characterize as better honoring the basic God concept: if He's there,
  it wouldn't honor Him to misinform or harm unnecessarily in His name--I think
  it would piss Him off.
  http://www.hulu.com/watch/36947/the-colbert-report-mon-jun-11-2012

  As knowledge grows an old text may need to be seen as allegorical, represent-
  ing the culture of the time and not what God would know, etc. An easy example
  even fundamentalist literalists would agree with is that Ancient Near East
  cosmology (the sky a hard dome, etc.) just represents the culture of the time.

  Likewise, liberal/progressive/reform is more liable to understand their faith
  as such, so not want anyone hurt or killed arbitrarily, which would be sadism
  and murder, so want separation of church and state. Iran could do a lot more to
  catch up on that.
• 

  cofty

  James Randy has $1-million dollars for anybody who can show magic exists.

  So far no claimants.
• 

  Think About It

  Does magic exist? Just go to a JW District Convention and watch a new changed doctrine (like over-lapping generation) be pulled out of the ass of the GB and watch the JW's applaud the magic show.

  Think About It
• 

  WTWizard

  Can they even prove that magic is evil? Or that Satan is evil? Or that Jehovah is anything more than a tyrant trying to ruin your life and enslave you? And, what about the LIE-ble? Reading the first three chapters of Genesis, right from their own LIE-ble, one would realize that Jehovah is a tyrant and wants you enslaved, and Satan is your Savior. Jehovah, however, wouldn't put up with us being free and therefore seized the human race.

  Based on that, it should be pretty blatant that Jehovah is the evil one. If magic makes Satan happy, so be it. Just remember it was Satan that, at great personal cost, opened His big mouth and tried to ruin Jehovah's tyranny. Doesn't that deserve praise? Certainly much more than trying to enslave us all, like Jehovah does.
• 

  Leolaia

  So the Society thinks they aren't superstitious?

  *** w87 11/1 p. 7 True Religion Dispels Fear — How? ***

  Just as the tropical morning sun evaporates the heavy dew of the rain forest, the light of Bible truth dispels all superstitious fear.

  Yeah. Right.

  *** w66 12/15 pp. 742-743 Repelling the Attack of Wicked Spirits ***
  
  It would have been exceedingly dangerous to keep such works on how to perform the magical arts; in fact, to keep any appendage of demonism is perilous. One must be absolutely free of any relics of spiritism, so as to allow the demons no beachhead.
  
  A vital question to ask if one experiences trouble with the demons is: Have you accepted any gifts from relatives or persons who dabble in spiritism? Any kind of article from such a person can cause trouble. In some actual cases it has been a radio, a sewing machine, a pair of shoes, jewelry, a “good luck” charm, a bathrobe, a blanket, a book. One woman had her bed tipped up at night when she tried to sleep on a mattress given her by her Spiritualist mother. A young woman had a fever of 106 degrees when wearing a garment given her by a Spiritualist. Another Christian woman kept a handbag given her by an aunt who was a fortune-teller. Using the handbag in the ministry, she experienced powerful thoughts of “Go home!” Bad thoughts rushed into her mind almost audibly, all of them anti-kingdom. She could not understand herself, as these negative thoughts entered her mind as if by telephone, so that she complained of “hearing herself think.” Only after getting rid of the handbag did she get relief.
  
  Sometimes keeping a letter from a spiritistic relative has brought trouble. Some persons have reported gaining relief by burning letters from relatives who dabble in spiritism. Even if an article from a spiritist is an expensive one, is keeping it worth the danger? One woman was tormented for years by the demons; finally she got rid of many household effects that came from a spiritistic relative. “The material loss,” she wrote, “was worth the peaceful calm that came over our house and family.” That objects from spiritists are implicated is clearly evident because relief almost invariably follows getting rid of them. The principle is similar to that used in sorcery, in which the demonist wishing to cast a spell will transfer an object into the possession of the intended victim.
  
  However, sometimes objects through which demons make contact resist burning, indicating demonic anger at efforts to destroy them. Some persons have found it difficult to burn up ouija boards or books on occultism. Others have reported experiences similar to that of the woman who had much distress at home after wearing a dress originally belonging to a witch. Learning of the source of trouble, she set out to burn it. “We poured gasoline on it, so it would burn quickly; but what amazed us very much was the fact that the dress did not want to burn.” Persist in your efforts to get rid of suspicious objects and relief in some measure usually follows.

  *** yb70 p. 159 Country Reports (Part One) ***Getting out of Babylon the Great presented no problem for her. However, one problem had to be overcome. Due to her previous associations, she still dressed in the same manner as her former friends. She especially liked to wear minidresses. When the seventh chapter in the Truth book was studied, she quickly realized that the demons not only sought sensual lusts before the Flood, but that they are still the instigators of sensual lusts, and anyone who dressed as she did could well be a target for the demons. As a result, this young girl sat down at the sewing machine and let out all of her hems. Now she dresses appropriately.

  *** g70 6/8 p. 7 Be Alert to Dangers of Spiritism ***
  
  Recently a young couple who had been subject to harassment by demons began studying the Bible with Jehovah’s witnesses. The lady of the home was accustomed to hearing noises and seeing figures in the house. When the Bible study would begin, a small bell would be heard ringing. Then the sound would grow louder and louder until it was impossible to study. Since the family had a history of association with spiritism, it was suggested that a search be made for objects through which the demons might gain entrance to the home. Even though this was done, the harassment continued.
  
  Then one day the husband noticed that his wife had a chain around her neck to which was attached a wedding ring that had belonged to her grandmother, who had been a spiritist. So they got into their car and drove down to the water’s edge, and soon out over the water sailed the ring. What a surprise they both had at that moment! For as the ring left the thrower’s hand a voice was heard crying, “Ah . . . aah . . . a-a-a-h” until finally the ring hit the water and there was silence.
  
  Now there is peace in the home of this couple. They can study the Bible and attend Christian meetings, and all is tranquil.

  *** kl chap. 12 pp. 114-115 par. 14 Resist Wicked Spirit Forces ***
  
  Even if you have not practiced spiritism, get rid of anything having spiritistic uses or overtones. This includes books, magazines, videos, posters, musical recordings, and objects used for spiritistic purposes. ... To illustrate: A married couple in Thailand had long been harassed by demons. Then they got rid of objects associated with spiritism. What was the result? They were relieved of the demonic attacks and thereafter made real spiritual progress.

  Yeah, no superstitious fear here.
• 

  MidwichCuckoo

  Judging by Blondie's post, JWs should steer well clear of museums then, as they are filled with relics of dubious background. Can't be too careful.
• 

  Bells

  Woah. Seriously!? Just when I think I have the hang of all the zany things those crazy witnesses believe it - and I think that nothing else can shock me, I read the article above and find myself flabbergasted!!! I cannot believe they really believe in magic!!!

  It's kind of funny when you think about young witness kids looking smugly at their non-believing classmates around Christmas thinking 'you fools, there is no such thing as Santa, that's totally ridiculous, you don't know the truth!'. And then they go home to mummy and daddy who are careful that they don't play a cd that might have spiritual undertones - in case they are attacked by a demon. WTF!!??

  If it wasn't quite so sad, I think I'd find it quite hilarious!!!

  Also - if they were able to seek outside help for mental health, they probably learn that 100% of witnessest who have experienced 'demon attacks' have actually experienced panic attacks. It's quite brilliant really - a witness is beginning to have doubts - feels guilty and anxious and leads to a panic attack/s. the WT response: Demon attack - your spiritual health must have wavered!!!

  But still. woah.
• 

  breakfast of champions

  James Randy has $1-million dollars for anybody who can show magic exists.

  This would be an excellent way for the WTS to raise some extra cash to supplement their Brooklyn Fire Sale