The Great Debate: "Has Science Refuted Religion?

by dark angle 239 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • tec
    tec

    First, the form the earth initially took did NOT involve liquid water on the surface. Liquid water did not condense to form oceans on the face of the young planet until at least 200 million years after the earth coalesced.
    Secondly, some source of "light" appeared on the FIRST day, but the sun, moon and stars supposedly weren't formed until the FOURTH day...
    Thirdly, the so-called "separation" between the waters "above" and the waters "below" - the waters "above" cannot physically exist. Gravity would yank said waters "above" down to the earth's surface almost immediately...
    And that's just the beginning of the flawed science in the Genesis account...

    Of a literal rendering, yes.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • tec
    tec

    Perhaps it is Krauss who is just dishonest or mistaken, and Dawkins did not want to correct him?

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    If the very first verse of Genesis, which speaks of the "heavens and the earth" as having a "beginning", is to be taken, according to you, "literally", then why would the account suddenly switch to "symbolism" with the next verse?

    As for the Genesis account speaking of a "beginning", had you looked up designs' comment above, you would have found that the Sumerian creation myth ALSO speaks of a "beginning" - and the Sumerian myth is MUCH older than that of Genesis...

    From the website: http://faculty.gvsu.edu/websterm/SumerianMyth.htm

    "The Sumerian Creation

    Only one account of the Sumerian creation has survived, but it is a suggestive one. This account functions as an introduction to the story of "The Huluppu-Tree" (Wolkstein 4).


    In the first days when everything needed was brought into being,
    In the first days when everything needed was properly nourished,
    When bread was baked in the shrines of the land,
    And bread was tasted in the homes of the land,
    When heaven had moved away from the earth,
    And earth had separated from heaven,
    And the name of man was fixed;
    When the Sky God, An, had carried off the heavens,
    And the Air God, Enlil, had carried off the earth . . . (Wolkstein 4)
    "An" the male sky god and "Ki" the female earth were separated by Enlil, their son and later the chief god of the pantheon. Enlil thus carries off his mother the earth, taking his father's place in a manner somewhat similar to the way Kronos, in a much later story, usurped his father's (Ouranos') power. But where did heaven (An) and earth (Ki) come from, you may ask? According to another text, it was Nammu, the sea, "the mother, who gave birth to heaven and earth"..."

  • tec
    tec

    I know about the Sumerian account, Zid. Could even be older accounts that we don't know about.

    Literal, allegorical, symbolic... all can be used to reveal the same truths.

    God speaking and the universe coming into being... symbolic or literal, it communicates an identical truth:

    There was a beginning.

    Science (currently) corroborates this.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    For that matter, reading this book would shed a great deal of light upon the subject of various "creation" myths, almost all of which start with "in the beginning"....

    http://books.google.com/books?id=9I62BcuPxfYC&pg=PA215&lpg=PA215&dq=Olmec+creation+myths&source=bl&ots=4WNDWkhXgP&sig=iUhTB0W1fOpyWnMractfeGljiNk&hl=en#v=onepage&q=Olmec%20creation%20myths&f=false

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    I'm trying, but drawing a blank . . . care to name one, just to get us started?

    Sure there many religious institution's that have helped the poor and disadvantaged, the sick and homeless ones.

    There were real positive things which originated by using following the examples of lets say Christ in the Christan faith.

    Not including religions like the JWS and others mind you.

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    As I've explained before, humans are aware that THEY have a "beginning"...

    They also must "create" tools in order to improve their existence.

    Both concepts are inextricably interwoven with human mythology and religion. Both are innately part of the human experience.

    But that is due to human limitations.

    Being unable to look beyond human limitations, many people feel or believe that the universe itself had to have a "beginning", and the limitation of being "built" by a human-like entity is incorporated into said "beginning", too...

    As science advances, more information will be discovered. But to claim that the words of late-Bronze-Age/early-Iron-Age Middle-Eastern male sheepherders whose "god" didn't even know what a volcano was, could somehow be "responsible" for the universe, is like believing in Santa Claus - again...

    Or like believing in whatever world-fusion version of such a deity is currently being cobbled together...

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    How can Genesis 1:1 be accepted at face value, but Genesis 1:2 be open to interpretation and slip into allegory? And who decides?

  • sizemik
    sizemik
    Sure there many religious institution's that have helped the poor and disadvantaged, the sick and homeless ones.
    There were real positive things which originated by using following the examples of lets say Christ in the Christan faith.

    Can't argue with that. The question I would ask is . . . are such things necessarily dependent on religion? There are many non-religious institutions which accomplish the same . . . without the negative side-effects.

    Being social benefactors has no relationship with religious dogma, as it isn't effected by changing doctrine. Morality's a human trait, not a religious ethic.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    Agree sizemik, religion has been the motivating factor for some really good things, but there are some terribly

    wrong things which were spurred on by religious dogma and prejudicial strife supporting that dogma.

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