URGENT: Please Sign White House Petition to "Protect Americans from Dangerous Cults: Modify USC Title 26 § 501 Tax Exemption Requirements"

by ABibleStudent 130 Replies latest members politics

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  wallsofjericho

  this will never fly.

  separation of church and state. Even the JW's are left alone when protecting their religious freedom because no one else wants theirs stepped on by government.

  I wish I was wrong, but who says its a cult or a religion? what government agency determines what religious standard is correct or tolerable?

  This is an impossibility. In Utah, mormons are not a dangerous cult, but in Texas they sure are!

  all religions are cults, some just bigger than others.

  This is has no bite or bark.
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  JeffT

  In this case, has my Constitutional rights been violated(by the WTS and its members)?

  No. You are free to be a member of any religion you want. And the JW's are free to practice JWism. Reread the first amendment. It protects you from the government, not private citizens or organizations.
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  blindnomore

  Jeff said, You are free to be a member of any religion you want. And the JW's are free to practice JWism.

  Did you also understand the constitution grantees that You are free NOT to be a member of any religion. And you are free NOT to practice JWism or WHATEVERism? As matter fact, protecting the citizens from the relgious tyranny was the primary interpretation of freedom of religion in the US Constitution.

  You also said, It protects you from the goverment not private citizens or organizations.

  The First Amendment states, "Congress shall make no law repecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.' [it] also prohibits Congress from setting up an official U.S. religion, and protects citizens' rights to hold any religious belief, or none at all. (bold mine)

  No where here it says the Constitution protects you from the goverment not private citizens or organiztions. According to the above statement, the Constitution prohibits Congress(government) from setting up an official US religion. It does NOt say your religious freedom of practice it or not practice it is protected by the Law from the government only not organiztions or private citizens. I simply don't see it!
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  Aaron Eldridge

  24,952 signatures in 22 days...well it was a nice try.
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  Shawn10538

  We're rallying now. 48! Now only 500 times more people need to sign. How can we get signatures on our own? Is there certain forms that need to be used for it to be legit? I was serious about going out and hoofing it in the neighborhood.
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  JeffT

  Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there.

  The government doesn't have the authority to punish you for deciding on your own who you want to associate with, or not associate with. Unfortunately that same right also applies to JW's. They are perfectly within their rights to shun people if they want, and neither the government, nor anybody else can make them be nice to anybody. Sometimes, life in a free society sucks.
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  blindnomore

  Jeff, I do not believe we are on the same subject.

  I am talking about the interpretation of the US Constitution on freedom of religion.

  You are talking about government's jurisdiction rights over its citizen.

  The government does NOT intrepret the law.

  It is the US Supreme Court that reviews laws, explains laws, resolves disputes, decides if a law against the Constitution.

  It is the Constitution that sets up the government, defines the government, and protects basic rights of Americans.

  The Government is not above the law.

  It has nothing to do with life in a free Society. That's another topic.
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  NewChapter

  The IRS would be responsible for creating web-based tool(s) to help monitor for compliance and to promulgate regulations to ensure that the intent of the legislation is enforced.

  I have not read through all of the posts yet, but wanted to get this out. While I would love to see the WT fall, we have to be careful that the means we use don't have unintended consequences. Requesting this type of thing is asking government to come in and monitor religion. I am not religious. I don't even like religion. However, this is America, and we have left these decisions up to individuals. I adamantly oppose when conservatives try to inject their freaky views of god and universe into policy, and I'm certainly not going to inject my own feelings against any religion into any policy.

  When we let the government start to lay down criteria as to what constitutes a cult, a valid relgion, or let them regulate too much, we head into a completely different era.

  I will continue my efforts through educating, supporting, and telling my story. As much as I despise the JW's for their shunning policy, I'm not willing to tell them who they must speak to. If we favor one religion over another in government, next thing you know, they are all up in our business again.

  But I believe the best motivation is behind this. I just thought I'd state why I won't support it.

  NC
• 

  ABibleStudent

  Thanks blindnomore and Shawn10538 for your supportive comments.

  Hi Aaron Eldridge, Thanks for reminding me about the urgency that 22 days are left before this petition expires. The fat lady hasn’t sung yet!!

  JeffT - No. You are free to be a member of any religion you want. And the JW's are free to practice JWism. Reread the first amendment. It protects you from the government, not private citizens or organizations.

  Hi JeffT, You are correct about the legal interpretation of the 1 st Amendment to the Constitution. Since you seem to know the legal interpretation, I'm a little confused about some of the statements that you have made about this petition in the past. If a law was passed by Congress that was inspired by this petition, the law would protect individuals' rights of freedom of religion and speech from being infringed on by a tax exempt organization and its leaders. Since I answered questions that you asked me about this petition, please answer previous questions that I have asked you and feel free to ask me clarifying questions about my responses to your questions. I will show you the same respect that you show me and other people.

  wallsofjericho - this will never fly.

  separation of church and state. Even the JW's are left alone when protecting their religious freedom because no one else wants theirs stepped on by government.

  I wish I was wrong, but who says its a cult or a religion? what government agency determines what religious standard is correct or tolerable?

  This is an impossibility. In Utah, mormons are not a dangerous cult, but in Texas they sure are!

  all religions are cults, some just bigger than others.

  This is has no bite or bark.

  Hi wallsofjericho, I’m a little confused by your comments. This petition is about protecting Americans from dangerous cults, and would not adversely affect religious cults. Have you read any of Steve Hassan’s books or visited his website at www.freedomofmind.com to learn more about dangerous cults? Although Mormons are a more benign dangerous cult than the WTBTS, the Mormon religion (i.e., its leaders) still promotes shunning of former members, according to information on www.freedomofmind.com . Since only dangerous cults attempt to coerce and intimidate their members to blindly follow its leaders, most religions would be unaffected by any law that would be inspired by this petition, and may appreciate that dangerous cults would not receive tax exemptions. Less money to dangerous cults may equate to more money to other religious organizations. As far as bite, I cannot imagine any tax exempt organization not being afraid of losing its tax exempt status and reduction in donations.

  Hi NewChapter, Thanks for reading the petition and writing comments. Is your objection to this petition about using the words “help monitor”? Since I was limited to writing this petition to 800 characters (not words), or less, please read more about this petition in the posts that I wrote in this thread . If legally possible, the web-based tools would be web pages that people could submit complaints to the IRS without having to send letters to the IRS, and to inform people whether complaints had been filed against an organization. Currently, the IRS does have a program for accepting written complaints about tax exempt organizations and has a web page at http://apps.irs.gov/app/eos/ to check on the status of a tax exempt organization.

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  Robert
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  NewChapter

  Hi Robert---I'm just thinking about the bigger picture. Right now, in the US, we have a HUGE problem with fundamentalists trying to throw our rights in the garbage and rewrite our history. I feel they often hide behind the first amendmant. They claim their skewed view of Christianity is the only correct view, and repaint this nation as a Christian nation, when it is actually secular (as far as government. We are actually quite religious). NOW, THESE are the freaks that are grabbing political power right now.

  So we give them an avenue with which they can look at and judge religions they already hold in disdain, and we give them power to decide which religions are better than others. We will be giving them too much power, and they WILL use it. They have proven that. It's the bigger picture. It also attacks a very fundamental right that Americans have always had----freedom of association. I stress, I could go so far as to say I often hate religion, but I would never want to do anything to inhibit it. Well---other than try to use reason and my freedom of speech---but using government to regulate religion is unacceptable and goes against our core values.

  With free speech comes a lot of discomfort and even pain. JW's are a painful, hostile religion. But that is true of many religions. If you are a religious person, you don't want the government stepping in and telling you what you can and cannot preach. If you are not a religious person, you don't want the government to have this power either, because one day, you may not be able to speak against religion. And if we put government in the position of choosing which religions are favored with tax exempt status and which are not will not have good results. Do you think our Christian consevatives would ever allow such for muslims or pagans? Or even other Christian sects. And when that happens, it will be a powerful propaganda tool---LOOK the government doesn't even consider them a valid religion---neither should you.

  Let's just stiffen up and deal with our freedom of speech. Protect it and you protect yourself. We are free to educate the public, we can print our own literature against JW's, we can start these forums and blog and dedicate entire websites to the cause. Because we have freedom. I can speak to who i wish, and JW's can too.

  The first amendmant guarantees that government won't enforce religious ideals, but at the same time it gives individuals the right to make their own personal choices. We don't need to take that away. Besides, the internet will be the end of them. A certain portion will always stay, but those that question have support like no other time in JW history. Google to check facts. JWN to shore them up when they consider walking away. JW facts to tell them the truth. We'll get there. We don't have to change the structure of our country to do it.

  NC

  NC