The wonders of God's creation - Example 1, the tsetse fly

by jambon1 319 Replies latest jw friends

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    with little knowledge of secular sciences such as biological evolution.

    Biological evolution is an extremely complex science that requires schooling and tutelage to fully understand. Biological evolution does not disprove God in any way shape or form. What it does is offer brilliant insight into the mind of God and his innerworkings. Science IS the study of order and order is caused by God.

    A horrid side effect of modern science is the creation of the the classes of "informed" and "not informed." It's sad that people just can't get along, we'd solve our tsetse fly problem a lot quicker.

    -Sab

  • thetrueone
    thetrueone

    Why do you believe I derive my logic from mystical writings?

    Where does your said spirituality come from, its certainly not from the encyclopedia Britannica ?

    Do you not find your acceptance of biological evolution contravening toward your spirituality which you derive from mystical writings ?

    The bible doesn't state that god will let animals evolve into different animals in appearance.

    Tsetse flies were in existence during biblical times as well as the many other parasites which are present today.

  • thetrueone
    thetrueone

    Biological evolution does not disprove God in any way shape or form.

    But of course god in the human imagination can do anything posible.....anything !

    There is probable need for rational logic concerning miracles., there's no debate there.

    Yahweh is you personal savior Sab., your heavenly father, its about time you went back to the Kingdom Hall don't you think ?

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Where does your said spirituality come from, its certainly not from the encyclopedia Britannica ?

    Spirituality is innate for all humans. To NOT be spiritual means that the mind has either been trained off of it, or it has trained itself off of it. I don't think giving up on spirituallity is inherently a bad thing, but you definitely have to choose to give it up at some point because it's there from the start. Kids are extremely spiritual, but most people just think it's "kids being kids."

    Do you not find your acceptance of biological evolution contravening toward your spirituality which you derive from mystical writings ?

    The Bible was written by ancient humans. I don't compare 17th century science textbooks with 20th century. I recognize the Bible's limitations, so it's doesn't bother me that they often conflict. If they didn't I'd still be a Witness. My points in this thread are my logical points. I don't quote the Bible like I would a published and peer reviewed scientific article.

    The bible doesn't state that god will let animals evolve into different animals in appearance.

    Besides, the Bible is a moot document, right? To non believers it's nothing but an overated book. I don't get my morality FROM it, I relate to the morality IN IT as given to me by my creator. On that level I indentify with the Bible a lot, but it's not my link to God. That's what my brain is for.

    -Sab

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    But of course god in the human imagination can do anything posible.....anything !

    Yes, which poses a big problem for anyone trying to debate against the existence of God. The problem of induction is the problem of imagination. But I don't call it a problem, I call it purposeful.

    That said, I don't believe in just making up stories. Everything needs to be rooted in logic and I do believe in intellectual dishonesty. It's very prevalent in religious communities. But you don't have to give up God entirely to be intellectually honest with yourself. So, if that is the reason for one's atheism then it's an illegitimate position to impose upon others, because you were just being true to yourself, not necessarily reality. Much like the way spirituality works. No God should be imposed upon someone who can't wrap their head around the particular idea. That's why there is an array to choose from. Not because of merely preference, but because of personalized predisposition.

    -Sab

  • thetrueone
    thetrueone

    That said, I don't believe in just making up stories.

    But your embracing spirituality comes from stories told by men thousands of years ago by primitive ignorant people. (Bronze age)

    Those mystical writings were made up stories, other civilizations created their own stories concerning their particular god or (gods)

    of worship, do you therefore have the right to dismiss their stories ?

    The problem of induction is the problem of imagination. But I don't call it a problem, I call it purposeful.

    So then you think its better to explain things through practical superstition and ignorance, rather than through any scientific methodology.

    This is the same method as the WTS leaders have. Good grief its good thing your not in a position of power and control over a community of people,

    you would really creating some serious damage, but nevertheless you would be in a postion of power though

  • thetrueone
    thetrueone

    Since primitive man had little knowledge of the things he saw and witnessed, such earthquakes, floods, tsetse flies etc., gods were the only tangible

    answer available to them, they fulfilled a necessary and needed gap of what was there for them to witness and experience.

    Embracing those ancient idealogical concepts is defined by yourself and many others as embracing spirituality.

    Living and working in todays reality with the knowledge we have today is much more fruitful to be living in comparison to mankind's past ignorances

    which you define as spirituality of the ancient Hebrew civilization.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    But your embracing spirituality comes from stories told by men thousands of years ago by primitive ignorant people.

    No, it comes from my brain which was designed with the capacity to embrace the unknowable, it's how we progress past being animals. I cannot be more clear, I do not get my ideas from the Bible. The Bible is something I know extremely well and I believe in it's message and do believe it is mystical.

    Those mystical writings were made up stories, other civilizations created their own stories concerning their particular god or (gods)

    You cannot prove this mainly because it's a wrong idea about storytelling. The stories were not arbitrarily made up nor were they crafted for the purpose of deceit. They were mostly based on ideas of morality. The characters in the Bible are ideological constructs that are based on real men and women in history. It's the ideas that they were trying to preserve, this is a common misconception that most people have about the Bible. It's incredibly complex and it's messages are often highly cryptic and mysterious. To come in thousands of years after the fact and call them merely fabrications is simply folly.

    So then you think its better to explain things through practical superstition and ignorance, rather than through any scientific methodology.

    I think scientific methodology is best left to scientists. They continue to discover new facts every day on so many subjects. Those facts can then be utilzed by philosophy to smooth out ideas about spirituality, which will also always need refining, just as science does. It's not either or and never has been. This is a common misconception about spirituality.

    This is the same method as the WTS leaders have. Good grief its good thing your not in a position of power and control over a community of people

    I defend God, not men. You are confused because you are having a hard time assigning motivations to my actions. This is likely because you are constantly assigning motivations to people with logic so much so that you don't even realize it anymore. Then when you find yourself totally wrong about someone, you just stand there scratching your head and convince yourself that it's just like the Watchtower.

    you would really creating some serious damage, but nevertheless you would be in a postion of power though

    No more damage than the atheist community has done to the world of spirituality. Purposeful damage mind you. Someone has to bring balance and it's not just me.

    Living and working in todays reality with the knowledge we have today is much more fruitful to be living in comparison to mankind's past ignorances which you define as spirituality of the ancient Hebrew civilization.

    Ancients are always more spiritual than mordern day humans. They were closer to God, but lacked knowledge to truly master their environment. Now we have mastered our environment and continue to do so, but we seem to have left God behind. God and spirituality will continue to live along side logic and reason and sometimes they will intermingle. Never will God be disproven, even if we control the energy of every star in our galaxy, we would still get a mere goflclap from the One True God.

    -Sab

  • cofty
    cofty

    What do you mean by "spirituality" Sab?

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    What do you mean by "spirituality" Sab?

    Two realms: one physical the other spiritual.

    -Sab

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