DISCUSSION WITH A JW; YOUR INPUT PLEASE...

by Mary 27 Replies latest jw friends

  • Mary
    Mary

    I'm 'talking' with a JW on another site who of course, does not believe that they are 'false prophets' and says that:

    "...Prophetic Inspiration and being filled with the Spirit ( to use a common expression) do NOT mean the same thing."

    "...Again the WTS is using the term "prophet" in the basic sense of a spokesman. ALL Christians when they speak or share from God's word are "prophets" in that basic sense."

    "...The term is NOT being used to describe a "Prophet" who has direct inspiration to reveal NEW things directly from God."

    "...(1)Does every Christian foretell the future by divine revelation, or (2)simply speak about what God has revealed in Scripture about the future? We have always made it plain we are speaking of (2) when describing our activities..."

    and the pièce de résistance :

    "...OH and we have never set a date...."

    I've got some questions and zingers to come back on him with, but I would love any input from you guys. Can the word "prophet" actually be "used in the basic sense"? Or is this just a typical cop-out from a Witness when faced with the idea of being a false prophet.........

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    I think prophet describes the GB quite well....it's what they do

    Prophetic inspiration: Isaiah's Lips Anointed with Fire, by Benjamin West

    In religion, a prophet, from the Greek word προφ?της (profétés) meaning "advocate", is an individual who is claimed to have been contacted by the supernatural or the divine, and to speak for them, serving as an intermediary with humanity, delivering this newfound knowledge from the supernatural entity to other people. [ 1 ] [ 2 ] The message that the prophet conveys is called a prophecy

    Do they not serve as an intermediary? And do they not give us 'new light'? Where does that new light come from? Surely not themselves that would just be blasphemy!!!!

  • Blind_Of_Lies
    Blind_Of_Lies

    http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/changed-watchtower-teachings.php

    That page and that website in general will give you stuff and you will be able to quote the Watchtower publications they came from.

  • Blind_Of_Lies
  • blond-moment
    blond-moment

    They HAVE said they were told directly from Jehovah, they HAVE said they speak for Jehovah, they HAVE claimed inspiration. They call themselves the Ezekiel class, the Jeremiah class etc. All insired ..for example

    They HAVE set dates, some quite specific for example: Sept 5, 1975..at sundown. Pretty darn specific. I made a video about it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-StPnZH8yo

  • N.drew
    N.drew

    I would say no, prophet used in the basic sense can not be right.

    The word is rare in the NT Greek Scripture. It is applied to John and is used in reference to the ancient "prophets".

    They teach, as Genesis 40:8 says, that interpretations belong to God.

    A prophet means a person who is an interpreter or forth-teller of Divine Will.

    http://concordances.org/greek/4396.htm

    So one who assumes Scripural interpretation or what God will do is a FALSE prophet.

  • thetrueone
    thetrueone

    Its quite obvious to most intelligent critical thinking people, that the WTS. doctrines that this religious organization created were

    expressed commercialized doctrines to help toward the proliferation of the WTS. literature, as they were presented to the public.

    The WTS. never really had notably well trained bible theologians, they had salesmen and a lot of lawyers but thats about it and todays GB

    members are just laymen who were only trained by the WTS. self developed theological training program.

    Jws get a overwhelming profusion of mental indoctrination, that they are preaching the gospel to mankind, that they totally miss the fact the

    what they are really preaching is the Watchtower Publishing House's version of the gospel, which is not the true gospel of the bible.

    Its a corrupt version of the gospel intensionally designed for commercial advantageous reasons.

    Here's a small bit of info I picked up recently regarding the WTS's 1914 date, just to use as an example.

    Just one of the many BS stories that was presented by the WTS. to heighten interest in their published works.

    Bullshit sells better than the truth .

    To add to this BS story by the WTS. here is some more information why the doctrine of 1914 is a fraud, perpetrated by this publishing house.

    Matthew 24:3
    " . . . what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
    Problem:
    J.W.'s argue that the Greek word "parousia" means "presence", hence the return of Christ will only be noticed by those who see him with the eyes of discernment. This is said to have taken place in 1914. Literally, it is argued, Jesus will never set foot on the earth.
    Solution:

    1. "Parousia" according to Greek authorities can mean presence, 1 but this does not necessarily imply an invisible presence. For example, the coming of Titus (2 Cor. 7:6,7); the coming of Stephanas (I Cor. 16:17); and the coming of Paul (Phil. 1:26) requires the personal presence of these persons. Similarly, the "bodily presence" (Greek: parousia) of Paul in 2 Cor. 10:10 is obviously what the record implies - a literal visible presence.
    2. Jesus warned against false prophets who would teach an "invisible return". Jesus said: "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in . . . the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Matt. 24:26,27). This verse is directly opposed to a view which states Christ returned to rule invisibly in 1914 (i.e., he's in the secret chambers). Nor does one ordinarily associate lightning, which can be seen across the sky, with an event which is unseen.
    3. Jesus will return literally and visibly to the earth. This is proven by the following evidence:

    4. "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst . . . " 2 (Zech. 14:4). This passage in itself is conclusive. Christ will be the name-bearer of Yahweh (vs. 3, LORD=Heb. Yahweh) as was the angel of the LORD. (Exod. 23:20,21 ). Christ will literally return to the mountain from which he left. (Acts 1:10,11). This event will fulfill the promise of the two men which said, "this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." 3 (Acts 1:11). He ascended literally and visibly until a cloud received him out of sight from the disciples. This is the "like manner" in which he will return.
    5. The inhabitants of Jerusalem and the house of David will look upon "me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn." (Zech. 12:10; cf. 13:6). How is this to take place unless Christ returns personally to the earth? (cf. Rev. 1:7 - "and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.")
    Matthew 24:3
    " . . . what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
    Problem:
    J.W.'s argue that the Greek word "parousia" means "presence", hence the return of Christ will only be noticed by those who see him with the eyes of discernment. This is said to have taken place in 1914. Literally, it is argued, Jesus will never set foot on the earth.
    Solution:

    1. "Parousia" according to Greek authorities can mean presence, 1 but this does not necessarily imply an invisible presence. For example, the coming of Titus (2 Cor. 7:6,7); the coming of Stephanas (I Cor. 16:17); and the coming of Paul (Phil. 1:26) requires the personal presence of these persons. Similarly, the "bodily presence" (Greek: parousia) of Paul in 2 Cor. 10:10 is obviously what the record implies - a literal visible presence.
    2. Jesus warned against false prophets who would teach an "invisible return". Jesus said: "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in . . . the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Matt. 24:26,27). This verse is directly opposed to a view which states Christ returned to rule invisibly in 1914 (i.e., he's in the secret chambers). Nor does one ordinarily associate lightning, which can be seen across the sky, with an event which is unseen.
    3. Jesus will return literally and visibly to the earth. This is proven by the following evidence:

    4. "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst . . . " 2 (Zech. 14:4). This passage in itself is conclusive. Christ will be the name-bearer of Yahweh (vs. 3, LORD=Heb. Yahweh) as was the angel of the LORD. (Exod. 23:20,21 ). Christ will literally return to the mountain from which he left. (Acts 1:10,11). This event will fulfill the promise of the two men which said, "this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." 3 (Acts 1:11). He ascended literally and visibly until a cloud received him out of sight from the disciples. This is the "like manner" in which he will return.
    5. The inhabitants of Jerusalem and the house of David will look upon "me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn." (Zech. 12:10; cf. 13:6). How is this to take place unless Christ returns personally to the earth? (cf. Rev. 1:7 - "and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.")

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    “You will be interested to learn that God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets ...
    Jehovah's Witnesses.” -Awake 6/8/1986
    How to identify a false prophet:
    "the things foretold would come to pass (Deut. 18:20-22)"
    (Aid to Bible Understanding, 1971, p. 1348).
  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    He didn't share any scriptures, eh? So anybody with a Bible in his hand can become a "prophet"? Anybody can claim to have holy spirit... expecially if they don't have to prove it in any way. JWs aren't anything special. They aren't led by "prophets", they're led by ordinary clergy who pick and choose some scriptures to be literal and others to be "figurative".

  • djeggnog
    djeggnog

    @Mary:

    I'm 'talking' with a JW on another site who of course, does not believe that they are 'false prophets' and says that: ...

    "...Again the WTS is using the term "prophet" in the basic sense of a spokesman. ALL Christians when they speak or share from God's word are "prophets" in that basic sense."...

    Can the word "prophet" actually be "used in the basic sense"? Or is this just a typical cop-out from a Witness when faced with the idea of being a false prophet.........

    Take a moment and read the following verse, @Mary:

    "Consequently Jehovah said to Moses: 'See, I have made you God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet.'" -- Exodus 7:1

    Now that you've read it, here's the first question: On what basis does Jehovah God consider Aaron to be Moses' prophet in speaking God's word to Pharaoh as a substitute for Moses? This isn't a Bible study or anything, so if you should find disturbing the fact that one of Jehovah's Witnesses should be asking you to answer this question, just know that I'm not really asking you this question at all, but just putting this question to you with the idea in mind that it will help you figure out what it is I'm saying to you without my having to specifically tell you what it is I would say.

    Now armed with the answer to my previous question, here now is a follow-up question: How then might Jehovah God view those of his worshippers, who, like Moses' own brother Aaron, speak God's word to the world as substitutes for Christ?

    Here now is my last question: Who is it today that makes the claim of being "substitutes for Christ" through whom God makes entreaty in beseeching that all "become reconciled to God"?

    @djeggnog

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