Memorial - Why do i keep going?

by maisha 48 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • djeggnog
    djeggnog

    @Pams girl:

    My conscience is clear djeggnog, and in no way "seared" thank you. I just wanted to make sure you are clear on that.

    I am clear on what you believe to be true about your conscience. However, I would have to point out to you that your use of the word "seared" in connection with your conscience would have to be quite different than my use of the word in connection with your conscience. Now why would that be? Because you suggested to the OP that her "inner voice" was trying to tell her something and also suggested to @maisha that she 'listen to her heart.' What rich is when you added these words" "You need to start to think for yourself...." If you want to make the OP believe that she is the one doing the thinking, you have to do this in a less obvious way, @Pams girl. Come on now!

    You say "how do you know she is right"? [ΒΆ] How do you know I am wrong????? Ok, lets not even go there.

    No, let's go there. You are not talking to @maisha now. Let's see you try to pull what you pulled out of that proverbial bag of yours for @maisha on me. You are so wrong to speak against the holy spirit in saying that there really is no need for someone to remember the man that died for our sins, opening the "door" to reconciliation with Almighty God! Think of that! Being at one with God as it was in the beginning when God was at one with Adam and Eve. To think that you were once upon a time considered by some to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Wow!

    I don't know if you ever believed in God, but I suppose you might believe in a god, but what is clear to me based on the sentiments regarding the memorial of Christ's death that you don't believe in my God, which is fine. Everybody has a god, someone or something that they worship. I also realize that some people have several gods that they worship almost every single day. But my God, Jehovah, sent his son, that would be the Lord Jesus Christ, to give his life as a ransom for the sins of the whole world. That what did his son do? He did the will of his father and laid down his life in death. That's what Jesus did for us.

    Someone breaks into your home when no one, but you and, let's say, your two daughters -- you may not have any children, but you have two daughters in this illustration -- were home, I don't know if you have a husband, but now you have one, but he is away at the time when this home invasion occurs, and he ties your daughters up and ties you up, so that you and they are unable to move or break free from your bonds, and then this man proceeds to rape you both vaginally and anally. Now it's Daughter #1 turn to be treated, as far as you can tell, exactly in the same violent fashion as he did you, and you can see on Daughter #1 face that she is very, very scared, and Daughter #2 is hysterically crying throughout this ordeal as it plays out. Got the picture now, @Pams girl?

    A neighbor has heard the ruckus from your home and after having called 9-1-1, the county sheriff have just at this moment driven up to the front of your home, and after the sheriff sees your neighbor, who had made that 9-1-1 call pointing at your front door, he approached the door slowly since he is alone with his service revolver drawn, and upon his crashing through the door and entering the home, he prevents this man -- this rapist -- from violating Daughter #1. Are you still with me, @Pams girl?

    At this point, the rapist produces a 9mm Glock 19 from his pocket and throws four rounds at the sheriff, who returns fire, killing the rapist. However, the sheriff that had come to your rescue takes two rounds to the chest and is fatally wounded. On March 21st the following year, the sheriff's family has a memorial for the late sheriff, who was survived by a wife and three children, two girls just like you, and their order brother, who is now 16 years old; he was 15 years old when his father died in the line of duty.

    It's March 21st, and here you are -- you, your husband and your two daughters -- are getting out of the car and are walking toward that late sheriff's home. Why would you be there? This is the man that effected a rescue, that may have prevented your daughters from being raped and may have prevented all of you from being glocked to death after he had accomplished what he had come into your home last year on March 21st. But why would you be there? The memories of that fateful day -- March 21st -- are rushing through your mind and this is not a pleasant memory for you, but regardless of this, you are there at the late sheriff's home anyway. Why are you there, @Pams girl? Let's see if your conscience isn't seared.

    Would you say that the sheriff died so that you might live? that the sheriff died so that your daughters might live? If you say, "yes" -- and note that I'm saying "if" -- then why wouldn't you want to observe the memorial of the death of Jesus Christ, @Pams girl? What's wrong with your conscience, @Pams girl, if it isn't seared? Why doesn't it work? Did you suddenly lose all sense of spirituality? Are you now of the opinion that Jesus never existed, or if you do not deny that he existed, are you of the opinion that he didn't die for you? or if Jesus did die, that he died for nothing? I look forward to your answer to this post, if you should decide to answer it at all.

    @djeggnog

  • etna
    etna

    djeggnog, Why do you go to the memorial. Didn't Jesus say to keep doing this until I return. He "returned in 1914". So why do they still do this. Have christedom got it right or does Jesus come many times?

    Etna

  • mediator007
    mediator007

    Just a couple of thoughts for you Maisha,

    First I personally do not think you are crazy at all. Rather I think your feelings are quite normal and are attributable to one of two things. Possibly you keep attending due to the fifty years of teaching concerning the importance of this particular event and the significance of the date and occasion. Certainly attending for that reason alone is not wrong. Additionally, although you perhaps recognize the errors of the societies teachings, you may yet realize the importance and need to show your appreciation for the ransom sacrifice of our Lord and savior. Once again, this is a proper and noble thing to do. I myself will be missing the memorial for the first time this year. (first time in 34 years) Rather, I will celebrate the Lords evening meal in private. I no longer accept that this organization is God's sole channel of communication, many reasons for this. But I more than ever am convinced that God's word is true and a person must endeavor to live his/her life by his word just as Jesus instructed.

    One final thought concerning someone's comment concerning letting "listening to your heart"; the scriptures clearly warn us of putting confidence in our heart - at Jeremiah 17:9 it states "the heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desperate" just a thought for you to consider.

    I suspect that the individual actually meant listening to your conscience and simply chose (in my opinion) a poor choice of wording. Listening to your conscience is a good thing although as the brother mentioned one's conscience can be seared.

    Just my thoughts, I wish you well my friend; and yes the memorial is April 5th, 2012 Mediator007

  • Azazel
    Azazel

    I have decided to miss this event. For me i have attended memorials for the past 41 years. I just dont know what to believe at the moment. I know its just the stage of recovery from that cult that im in and life will go on for the better.

    Az

  • Chariklo
    Chariklo

    Wow. I was pretty appalled by djeggnog's contribution there, but I'll let that pass for now. Looks like he/she is thoroughly indoctrinated, (edit as an afterthought: though I may have misunderstood something there.)

    Coming to the WT as I did from a background not very immersed in another church but very educated in theology and wide Bible scholarship, even though I was well and truly hooked in by the very clever JW pioneers who "found" me, I never enjoyed the Memorial, nor did I ever find it to be what djeggnog describes as observing "the memorial of his death". It patently isn't. It is quite explicitly just one interpretation of the instructions that Jesus left his followers. Broad Christianity, by which I mean almost all of the other churches, Catholic and Protestant. all have a much more frequent occasion when they follow those instructions according to their individual understanding.

    Bear that in mind, as you think about this year's memorial. It is absolutely, explicitly, not commemorating his death. It's an attempt to follow his instructions in just one individual way according to some very unique and to most people bizarre interpretation of the Bible. It is also a self-glorifying exercise, an outward demonstration of exclusivity and power, a firm putting-into-their-place of everyone whom the WT has decided were never intended by Jesus to be included.

    I am not holding out any brief for a particular interpretation of Christianity, nor even for any particular religion. You have been so scarred by the Watchtower that you're feeling thoroughly unsure whether or not you "believe in a Creator!, let alone who or what that may be."

    You know, Maisha, that's REALLY GOOD! That's healthy! Of course you're not sure of everything, even any basic belief, but that in itself is a sign that you are beginning to listen to the voice of independence and common sense inside yourself. Escaping a lifelong indoctrination must be very very difficult. It sounds as if you were thoroughly immersed.

    I'm not going to tell you wherther or not I think you should or shouldn't go the memorial this year, because your decision is your own, but before you decide you should ask yourself, as you are already asking, exactly why you would even think of going.

    If you find you don't know, or if you find that fear is part of the answer, then you might like to consider not going at all. Instead, you could do absolutely anything else, from watching TV to enjoying the open air, just going for a walk, to enacting your own Last Supper with friends as WTWizard suggests, or even, a way out suggestion, going to one of the many other celebrations/observations/services around Easter time in another church. You would quickly see that Jesus' death is remembered on the Friday (6th this year) -Good Friday- and hs resurrection celebrated on the Sunday, Easter Sunday. You could just go into any church or chapel or whatever, whether Episcopalian or Light and Life, Shekinah, Methodist, Baptist, Salvation Army, even Catholic, anything, just as a member of the congregation gathered there, to see what happens. Depending on where it was, you would probably be unlikely to get a JW-style massive welcome, but equally, no-one is going to turn a hair. I think you might find a Friday service tough going, because since it is observing Jesus' death, wherever you went, it's going to be particulary solemn and sad. The Sunday, wherever you went, will be joyful. It will be very different from a KH. Or, you could watch a service on TV. Or you could find a Quaker meeting and just sit there quietly and see what happens.

    Or, read about Buddhism. Or, even, visit a bookshop and browse some of the excellent self-help, New Age books around.

    Whatever you do or don't do, do it because you've actively chosen that course of action, not because you are dimly afraid of some vague retribution if you don't. That is fear-mongering, pressuring nonsense, and says such a lot about the organisation that promotes it.

    Remember. You are free. Your life is your own.

    Edit: PS: I know what I'm doing in respect of this year's Memorial. I shall not be there. That gives me a great sense of freedom and of regaining control of my own life. My own free choice.

  • mP
    mP

    @etna

    Jesus also said to find a man carrying a pitcher of water when preparing the last supper meal. This same man will have a room prepared.

  • designs
    designs

    Recommend reading: Joseph Campbell's The Power Of Myth.

  • nugget
    nugget

    sometimes it can surprise us how deeply the conditioning effects us. The memorial was always a do or die event you go as an extra assurance that god will save you and failing to attend was a serious omission. However under the witness paradigm the only ones obligated to attend are the annointed, every effort is made for them to receive the emblems even if they cannot make it to the hall, if an observer fails to attend no one turns up at their home with bread and wine.

    You are not required to attend as an observer it seems your attendance is about something else. I would say if the meeting is a burden and is not an uplifting experience then why put yourself through the shunning and the cruelty? If you go to make a point and you get something from it then continue to go. If you still have a belief in God then quiet meditation at home can demonstrate the appreciation in Jesus' sacrifice required on such a day it is not necessary to undertake public pennance. If you have no belief then nothing is accomplished by going accept validation of the JW belief that people outside long to come back in.

    I have not attended the memorial for a year and it was this one thing that helped me break free. I was able to accept that the fear I had once felt over not attending was irrational and uneccessary. The God that punnishes non attendance at specific meetings seems very tyrannical and unreasonable. Also a religion that teaches contempt of any other viewpoint without any attempt to understand is more about control then worship.

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    Actually Nugget you haven't attended for 2 years, the last one was 2009 when I gave the talk!

  • nugget
    nugget

    time flies and all that!! Thanks for the reminder

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