How to Record a Judicial Meeting

by 00DAD 59 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  00DAD

  BOTR: I wonder how much is playing cloak and dagger and making this trite business seem valuable in the elder's eyes. Someone with not much power in normal life may love the excitement of the secrecy and the serious consequences he can impose.

  Great comments, really!

  I think you're spot on with your assessment of why many elders enjoy the JC process. It makes them feel important. The WTBTS play on this improper motive to achieve their own means: avoid corporate liability.

  Everything about the JW judicial process is wrong. When you think about it, the only Biblical account it resembles is the Trial of Jesus!

  • PROOF: Judicial Hearing Procedures of Jehovah's Witnesses are Bible Based
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  00DAD

  As for the legality or illegality of recording a judicial meeting I'd like to re-post my previous comments from four months ago:

  ... I really can't see how it would ever be an issue. Seriously, what could the elders possibly do? Call the police on you?

  Elder Ima Fended: "Officer, we're having a secret "Star Chamber" judicial meeting with a member of our congregation and he recorded it without our permission. We'd like you to come and arrest him!"

  Police Officer: "Hahahahahahahahahaha ...... CLICK!"

  Do you think they'd pursue criminal charges? If they did, (which they wouldn't), the easiest defense would be to expose their draconian "Star Chamber" judicial process and say that in desperation it was THE ONLY way that you believed you could protect your own interests!

  I think any judge would acknowledge the reasonableness of that in light of the WTBTS's clearly one-sided (in their favor) policies.

  In the US Supreme Court case, Paul v WTBTS of NY, Inc , one of the Supreme Court justices said this about the WTBTS's rules and regulations:

  • "The Witnesses … have developed an elaborate set of rules governing membership."

  Also, if the Elders DID try to pursue any legal action, it would allow the individual to expose in open court any and all ridiculous statements made by said elders in the recorded meeting. I can't see them risking it!

  Let's review: In any civilized society judicial matters are open. Transcripts are kept. In the U.S. when lawyers depose individuals in preparation for trial they ALWAYS have a court reporter present to create a transcript. The WT's policy of forbidding a record of the meetings is just plain wrong. I for one have no problem breaking rules that are wrong. It's called Civil Disobedience. It's an American Tradition!

  Ya' just gotta' be prepared to suffer/deal with the consequences.

  00DAD

  PS - If you're really worried about it, call your lawyer!
• 

  144001

  "You may be liable for civil or even criminal fines in the state in which you reside." - Band on the Run

  If you're in California, you might want to consider the following laws before you record anyone for any reason:

  California Penal Code Section 632(a):

  " (a)Every person who, intentionally and without the consent of all parties to a confidential communication, by means of any electronic amplifying or recording device, eavesdrops upon or records the confidential communication, whether the communication is carried on among the parties in the presence of one another or by means of a telegraph, telephone, or other device, except a radio, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500), or imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison, or by both that fine and imprisonment. If the person has previously been convicted of a violation of this section or Section 631, 632.5, 632.6, 632.7, or 636, the person shall be punished by a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison, or by both that fine and imprisonment."

  California Penal Code Section 632(c):

  "(c)The term "confidential communication" includes any communication carried on in circumstances as may reasonably indicate that any party to the communication desires it to be confined to the parties thereto, but excludes a communication made in a public gathering or in any legislative, judicial, executive or administrative proceeding open to the public, or in any other circumstance in which the parties to the communication may reasonably expect that the communication may be overheard or recorded."

  California Penal Code Section 637.2

  " (a)Any person who has been injured by a violation of this chapter may bring an action against the person who committed the violation for the greater of the following amounts:

  (1)Five thousand dollars ($5,000).

  (2)Three times the amount of actual damages, if any, sustained by the plaintiff.

  (b)Any person may, in accordance with Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 525) of Title 7 of Part 2 of the Code of Civil Procedure, bring an action to enjoin and restrain any violation of this chapter, and may in the same action seek damages as provided by subdivision (a).

  (c)It is not a necessary prerequisite to an action pursuant to this section that the plaintiff has suffered, or be threatened with, actual damages."

  If you have any questions regarding the interpretation of these statutes, consult an attorney.
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  loosie

  In my judicial comittee meeting 17 years ago... they asked me if my husband put a recording device in my purse. being as indoctrinated as I was I opened my purse to show them nothing was there.. and in fact nothing was there... but it gave me a good idea for the next time I had a judicial meeting... but alas they no longer have any interest in me so I don't think I will be getting one again in my lifetime.
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  Balaamsass
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  StephaneLaliberte

  If I refuse to have a JC that is not recorded, will they go ahead and disfellowship me by having a JC in my absence?
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  Julia Orwell

  I've often wondered what would happen in a judicial committee if the defendant simply refused to answer their questions. I had two elders come to investigate me for apostasy at my house, and whenever they trotted out the "do you believe the GB is directed by God/Jesus?" I kept saying "I will not answer that." They left my house with nothing they could use against me. Can they convict you by omission? A bro I knew was in a JC for 'apostasy' and he refused to say anything but only quoted scriptures. He got off.
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  zound

  This brother basically refused to answer the questions:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/scandals/259343/1/Scandalous-injustice-at-JC-read-this
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  jp1692

  Bumping it for John Davis who asked the question below on this thread:

  • Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

  JD: I wanted to get people's opinion on something. How do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the Watchtower? There have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with Elders and with Branch offices or at meetings. They have done this in states or countries that require two party consent to record conversations and where the penalties can be a criminal prosecution.
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  road to nowhere

  I wonder if California courts would take on a complaint? It seems that there is a "record" kept by the committee. And the communication is Not confined to the parties present. I would think this applys to things like money matters, divorce, things that should be private. In any other serious matter in the world you are allowed to have advice from a lawyer, doctor, or whoever know about the matter.

  Around here they won't even let the parents have a say or interject any thoughts, but they are required to be present. so everyone can be properly disciplinned. then it is off to home for a double shot and supper