Want honest answers

by independenthinker 73 Replies latest jw experiences

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  independenthinker

  I've wanted to make this account for the past 2 weeks, but ive been afraid that ill get caught by posting. do they check this site?

  Im 18 years old,baptized at 14. really my problems started a few weeks ago. i have been going out with a "worldly girl" for the past year and 7 months, i know im 18, but shes the love of my life, and i dont see how loving someone can be wrong, how she could lead me down a wrong road, which she hasnt. i know all about marking, and it doesnt bother me in the slightest, because i was always allowed have worldy friends and im fairly popular. i never hang out with people in my hall because i dont have anything in common with them. anyway, a brother found out.he was worried about me. . . anyway, i talked to an elder. what didnt bother me was his counsel about my relationship with jehovah being in danger, because i have been going out with people outside the truth since i was 12, never done anything sexual, or magically started doing drugs and worshipping satan. no, what bothered me was these words exactly:

  "theres a bigger problem. even if this girl comes into the truth, you get i married, and everythings fine, its still not ok, because you've showed a line of independent thinking and an independent spirit, which is very serious"

  this piqued my interest, and i searched for it in the library. i love reading, and well. .. i couldnt help but find the societys info on "Independent thinking" rather orwellian. so i ended up on the internet, against my total fear of looking up things about WT not from the WT.

  I see why they warn us now.

  Ive spent the last 2 weeks up till 6 in the morning poring over sites, and now my mind is in shatters. i was born in the truth, so forgive me for my doubts as ive been told that any thinking against the wt is apostacy. im really,really scared. what im asking is, concerning everything, like blood, 1975,beth sarim, generational teachings, the UN, the sex abuse, 1874, 1914. . . .is this all true? from my research, ive deduced that after the 1975 fiasco, the organisation got a little bit. . . controlling and desperate to hold onto its teaching power? i really dont know what to think anymore. im in my final year of school, and i realise that my whole life is possibly a lie. ive noone to turn to, cant talk to my mum or dad as they would report me, i poured out all i learnt to my best friend, and while that was good for release, its not answered any of my questions.

  The Ironic thing is, if i hadnt been accused of independent thinking, this would have never of started.

  Please, id like some honest, unbiased answers, for a Kid who is really confused.
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  Witness My Fury

  Welcome. Take your time ....and breath. It's a journey and not always pleasant. Read, read, read ...did I say read? Ask the hard questions, ..."make sure of all things" ...right?

  I'm a born in and while approaching 40 decided it was high time to double check my religion, I spent the best part of 3 years researching and double checking and yes, it's exactly what it sounds like... A CULT. I'm still researching and reading and have yet to find anything that could validate it as the "Truth".

  Double check, make sure. There are some nutter apostates out there who will over exagerate and sensationalise stuff, but by and large it is all correct info that proves it is a cult.

  THAT is a very hard pill to swallow I know. So take yer time and double check. 607bce being totally debunked was the clincher for me....

  Reading up on critical thinking skills is beneficial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OLPL5p0fMg
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  blond-moment

  Hang on to your seat, the rollercoaster of emotions does pass. It is quite a shock to realize just how they have decieved us. I cried, puked, and was seriously depressed for a while, wanting it all not to be true, but it is all real. They are false prophets of the worst kind. If it were just one thing, maybe I could have forgiven them, but it's layer after layer after layer of deciet, lies, dirty deeds, etc. After a while I just couldn't bend anymore to protect them, without breaking.

  I started my search to strengthen my faith, I had some issues, and honestly I thought there was something wrong with me, and set out to fix it. The house of cards fell. UN real, yes, Pedophile scandals, yes, abuse, yes, gambling with donations, false prophecy yes, Mind control yes illegal toxic dumping yes etc yes, yes and yes. We have all been there, and it is beyond bizarre. I really felt I was losing my mind for a while....how could this be? Who am I? What planet am I on? Weird to say the least.

  The more I have researched, the more I found. The facts are undeniable. At first, I was (desparate thinking) that they once had Jehovah's, blessing, at least once upon a time they were the "truth". In my own research, I now don't believe they ever were God's organization, just another fringe group that developed in the late 1800s, turns out there was a bunch of them, only a few stuck. Just waaaaay too many FACTS, they are a publishing company after all, and do love their letters "write to the society" everything is written down. In even more research, I find them to be a mind control group (cult). Even their own literature warns how to spot mind control and propganda and then uses those EXACT things on it's members. It's mind control.

  Learning about logical fallacies, the literature is now unreadable to me, it's wall to wall logical fallacies.

  I would like to suggest youtube for you. There is a whole bunch of us who made videos with the title "how leaving the watchtower affected me" and similar titles. Many of us talk about the mental mind freak out of waking up. It really is a trip. Hang on, keep talking, sharing, and reading others who have gone thru it. It does get better, and you too will come to understand the mean of "the truth will set you free"
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  Lozhasleft

  You maybe are hoping that someone will say..."It's ok...this is all wrong...the WTBS do really have the truth"? I remember that feeling so well. Unfortunately or fortunately depending on your perspective, sorry Independent Thinker but it isn't going to happen. What you are finding out is that there is a very good reason that the org doesn't want you to think, read, reason or research.

  There is a magnificent book, written by a member of the GB, Ray Franz (deceased now sadly) a really lovely, gentle, humble man. He wrote the book Crisis of Conscience about his life and his experiences in the GB. It broke my heart, but it did set me free.

  I can only recommend that you carry on reading...try JWfacts where you can read Rutherford's anti-semitic letter of support to Hitler, of course that was prior to the JWs dying in the Holocaust....so many shocking facts that will possibly devastate you, but they will definitely set you free. But take care, while you're reading and researching, keep your mouth firmly shut. Don't go running to tell the elders or anyone else of your discoveries or you will find yourself in a judicial committee meeting.

  On here you can learn how to successfully 'fade' out of the org...so that you don't have to lose all your family and friends...the way so many of us have.

  Welcome aboard....there are some really lovely people on here in the main....and the majority offer great support.

  Loz x

  Ps If you're worried about being 'caught' here...you'll be ok if you don't post personal/congregation details, just be careful with that.
• 

  diamondiiz

  Welcome,

  Yes it's all true. It's hard to realize that your world is build on false hopes and dreams and it's one big lie. See if they have Thy Kingdom Come book in your KH library, if not, maybe some older ones will have it that you can read and see what Russell really taught for yourselves. Nothing is more real than reading from their own old publications.

  You can check out jwfacts.com for more quotes and references to the material for you to double check. Don't take anyone's word for it at your stage and double check what you read since that's what you really need so that no one can tell you that apostates lied to you. Thy Kingdom Come book is Russell's 3rd book from Studies in the Scriptures which explains made dates.

  Basically 1874 waas Jesus' return based on 6000 years of human lives. 1878 was when Jesus began to rule i the heavens and 1914 was supposed to be end of the worldly governments and end of gentile times. Oh ya, the last days began in 1799. Many dates were derived from various calculations and were supported by the passages in the Pyramid of Giza which you'll find interesting in Thy Kingdom Come book. If you can't find the hard copy of Thy Kingdom Come, you can download it here.

  They officially changed 1874 to 1914 in the 1943 so they were preaching and teaching 1874 for over 50 year! 1878 and 1799 dates were changed to 1914 in the 1920s by Rutherford.

  1925 was another big deal during the 1920 and that's also where Millions Now Living Will Never Die came from, because they taught that in 1925 the end would come but oddly Rutherford didn't have a problem with failed date since he build Beth Sarim for himself in 1928(?) where he spend winters. As Proclaimers book points out that the Mansion was for Rutherford it doesn't mention that the deed to the building had names of King David, Abraham and other "faithfuls" found in the book of Hebrews (don't remember that chapter and verse, you can find that yourself). Anyways, Rutherford had no problem living there while driving a Cadillac and a Lincoln while US was going through the great depression. If you're looking up Beth Sarim, you can also look up it's sister site Beth Shan.

  Anyways, there is so much witnesses don't know today and how watchtower deceives them. You can research the quotes sited in the articles in Oct and Nov watchtower (public) of 2011 dealing with the date of Jerusalem's destruction, which they claim occurred in 607BC which they misquote the authors and hide the important information regarding what the tablets contained. I suggest you do your own research from the actual books but you can take a look at this site which has a clear rebuttal of the articles at the bottom of this site. As I said, it's best if you do find original books quoted so that you know the real truth who tries to deceive you and who is telling the truth.

  The two books I would recommend that you find and read are:Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz (ex GB member, nephew of Fred Franz -wts president) and Gentile Times Reconsidered by Carl Olof Jonsson which deals with the year when Jerusalem was destroyed and the facts that support 586/7BC for its destruction and not 607. By the way, the entire world including Israel accept 586/7BC as the year for Jerusalem's destruction by Babylonians.

  Also be careful not to tell anyone what you learn so you don't get DF for apostasy. You will probably get mentally sick from what you learn. I hope you think about going to college and get education that will help you live a normal productive life so your life after moving out of home will be normal. Ask any questions, and ask for references to support the statements you learn.

  In my research the main false ideas regarding wts I've come across were that Russell was a mason, occultist and a pedophile. Usually sites that claim these are ones who deal with conspiracy theories and like sensationalizing things - avoid those.

  Again, ask and people will help you find information that you need, it will take you a while and will take you even longer to deprogram yourself from the lies and fear and guilt you grew up in.

  I
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  cofty

  Welcome to the rest of your life. You are in for a bumpy ride, its exhilarating and terrifying in equal measure. You are so fortunate to be working this out when you are young, many of us went through this as middle aged or older.

  Read a lot, ask questions, play devils advocate if you want but be prepared for robust replies. JWFacts is a great resource. On blood have a read at this and let me know if it helps.

  Best wishes.
• 

  yknot

  

  Awww Sweety,

  I know it is a lot to take in......

  Yes it is all true.

  You are a very bright lad indeed!

  Maybe you can be a little more specific in what aspects of the subjects you listed.

  I don't wanna overwhelm the thread (and you) with a way-too-long initial response.

  Huggles dear boy, things are going to get gut wrenching but you are young and have a marvelous future ahead of you (and sounds like a swell gal at your side to boot!)
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  redvip2000

  Hi consider yourself lucky that you are discovering this at the age of 18. For many out there, they come to this realization much later in life, after wasting decades in service to the bOrg.
• 

  yknot

  Useful links....

  Blood (auto-DAing by action except Bulgaria where such could be argued a 'sanction'...) http://www.ajwrb.org/ If I remember correctly it was suggested by Clayton Woodworth in the 1930s but Rutherford shot it down. Knorr and Franz ran with the prohibition later. The ins and outs get murky to the point of stupid as information about blood continues to be understood. Now it is just a loyalty inducing-gauge used to create persecution and alliance within the JW communtity (featured heavily in last years 'elder school'). also http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/best-of/77140/1/The-Best-of-WTS-and-Blood

  Sex Abuse (kudos to Barbara Anderson http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/docs/jw-secrets.html scroll down to see free downloadable court files.

  1975- Gawd the links.... I cut my teeth litterally during this period, all true but I remind you at the 2008-09 District Assemblies the WTS admitted they were 'running ahead' out of zeal (the DC I attended had GB Geof Jackson deliver this talk-)

  Beth sarim-- Yes the Judge's ashes are under the garage been told that since I was could walk. Beth Shan was way cooler though!

  Generational teachings... see chart at bottom of webpage http://www.freeminds.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=863:this-generation-teaching-changes-for-6th-time-in-april-15-2010-watchtower&catid=5:dates-chronology&Itemid=700

  The UN (soooo many links) http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/united-nations-association.php , http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/best-of/76847/1/The-Best-of-WTS-and-the-UN ,

  1874/1878 1914..... sigh... in a nutshell our 'kingdom message, out 'truth' is that Jesus was enthroned in 1914 (however we didn't start to teach this until the early 1920s) 1914 as the parousia wasn't a full-on teaching until 1943 (though Franz did suggest it once in 1929 in the 'Golden Age-now Awake publication, but Rutherford slapped him silly and went back to 1874)

  It is heart wrenching to learn you and I and everyone on this board was played, lied to and coerced into servitude.
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  independenthinker

  thanks everyone,

  i have read jwfacts about 3 times, and quotes-watchtower is good too. that was the first site i was on, as i seen on wikipedia about the jensen letters. and beth sarim, what a joke! ive been really depressed lately, i just dont know whos telling the truth :( ive been told this is all lies to take me away from jehovah, but what if they're lying? there was always stuff i didn't agree with, like no blood over life, i always thought jehovah would be proud of humans for that breakthrough. and exclusive salvation, which is probably why i never viewed worldly people as bad. and i never thought these differences of opinion as bad until they told me not to disagree. diamondiiz, dont worry, i never paid attention to no education! im going to music college, im a songwriter. ive been writing loads since then. i was never gonna be a pioneer, but was firm in my beliefs thanks ykot, mainly how they can call false prophecys new li, but jump on other religions for doing it! and yeah, she's amazing. she loves unconditionally, something which im starting to see my religion fails to do. she supports me as being a jw, and now she's supporting me with my confusion, not even taking advantage of the situation to further me away from the religion, to me seemed out of character for a so called worldlyperson! my biggest question though, is just . . why :(