Are you Ex's still Christian?

by joel 63 Replies latest jw friends

RR

I am still a believer and very active in my Church!
"People in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones"
joel

Hey RR,
If ya don't mine my askin'...I was wonderin' about your Church and what your involvement is there.
Like I've mentioned...I go to a large non-denominational church here in LA...pastor by John MacArthur...a well respected author/teacher.
Good to see ya have kept the faith!
Pax bro!,
joel
Scorpion

Joel,
I have listened to John MacArthur's Grace to You program. He does have some good messages.
I have attended several churches in the past 10 years since leaving the WT. Calvary Chapel is the most laid back and informal. The messages are less dogmatic or legalistic but still go in line with the Bible. I also attend the LDS (Mormon)church at times. The reason for so doing are for research purposes, not because I believe the teachings of the LDS, as a matter of fact I find most of their doctrines moronic. I have problems with believing that the Bibles we have today are exact or represent the original manuscripts. I believe they all have been tampered with to a degree and most are written with a bias.
Take for instance 1 John 5:7 For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. NIV
The KJV says: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
I find it interesting that the words (in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Spirit, and these three are one; there are three witnesses on earth) are not found in any of the early Gk MSS, or any of the early translations, or in the best MSS of the Vulg. itself. I see these words added to form a more Trinitarian bias. It appears that the words Father, the Word and the Spirit and these three are one are probably a gloss that has crept into the text.
As far as my belief, I do believe in God and his son Jesus.
joel

Scorpion,
I think that's cool that you are familiar with Grace to You...I'm able to listen to the program everyday, in addition to hearin' John on Sundays.
I'm very familair with Calvary Chapels...they were started here in Cailf. and my brother goes to the original one in Costa Mesa...very family friendly churches...and the messages are as you say.
Re: Mormons...they probably have the most farout views of any accepted group calling themseles Christians.
Your point about 1 John 5:7 is well taken...but I think the Dead Sea scrolls showed that there has been little or no change in the Bible MMS...the 1 John 5:7 instance was an obvious,blatant bias that was caught by looking at the early MMS.
Thanx for the thoughts...I enjoy hearin' from seekers.
Pax,
joel
Grunt

I am still a Christian. I don't belong to any denomination and don't really have a desire to. While I don't try to defend the things that were done in the Old Testament or the punishment of all mankind for the deed of one couple that though perfect did not resist sin even as well as I do. I GARONTEE you (emphasis for you Frenchy) that if all I had to do was not eat from a certain tree, I'd never taste it. I have never tried and will never try all kinds of sins of the flesh and of the spirt. All my drugs will be to fight germs or something like that. I have no desire to dominate or rule over anyone including my wife or the people I work with. I have a desire to have the respect and love/friendship as is appropriate.
Still I do believe in the Bible. I am not saying it is the only possible answer, though I do think that Christ is the only Way and that you have to accept that sacrifice to have the Mediator you need to intercede for you. As for the scriptures, I find so much in there that is so noble, so beautiful and such a good target for me to shoot for. Forgive me if I am boring you but I will quote a couple of my favorites, one very short and one a little longer. Here they are:
Phillipians 2:3 doing nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism, but with lowliness of mind considering that the others are superior to YOU
If the world would do that then all our problems could be solved and you would be rid of crime, war, and all bad interactions among humans.
If we all honestly treated the other person as though they were better than us and deserved the best food, the best care, well, we'd be outdoing ourselves trying to be good to one another.
The other one I will quote is 1 Cor. 13:
13 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but do not have love, I have become a sounding [piece of] brass or a clashing cymbal. 2 And if I have the gift of prophesying and am acquainted with all the sacred secrets and all knowledge, and if I have all the faith so as to transplant mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 And if I give all my belongings to feed others, and if I hand over my body, that I may boast, but do not have love, I am not profited at all.
4 Love is long-suffering and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, does not get puffed up, 5 does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. 6 It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
I can only aspire to the attitudes expressed above. I would prefer another translation, but as I have the WT CD ROM I just used it. In the King James I believe it says words to the effect of "If I hand over my body to be burned" and don't have love it is for nothing.
As for evolution, I have posted before my attitude about that so I won't beat a dead horse. Suffice it to say that I have struggled so hard on so many jobs to do simple things with lots of planning and all kinds of tools. I usually made it all work but wow, what a struggle. Then you look at nature and all these intricate systems, small as cells, large as galaxies work perfectly and interact with other complex systems with only mutual beneficial results. I don' know if you have been following the news in science but I saw the other day the scientists are wanting the politicians to put giant mirrors, (1200 miles long or square or both) shoot particles up with the guns of ships like the New Jersey or such, do something to reflect away 1-2% of the sunlight hitting Earth. They need to do it because of greenhouse gases caused by man. I hope they think long and hard about it as I don't trust their intervention anymore than I do the Kudzoo idea or any number of other interventions in nature they have come up with. To quote the Bible again "Every house has its builder, the builder of all things is God." Makes sense to me. Now just who God is, what name he prefers (I have gotten into the habit of referring to him as Father, or the Creator), why he allows death, pain, and all the other, I don't know. I do know I am probably too studpid for a complex, complicated explanation. I still sometimes have a desire to double check calculators. I know they work, I know TV works. I see it all working. I take the how of it on faith. I also like the Bible's definition for God. God is Love. I like that.
joel

Hey Grunt,
Good ta have ya among those, who have not let the unanswered hard questions, discount it all.
Reguarding those hard questions(existance of evil/pain,evolution,afterlife for the unsaved,why only Christianity saves,science n the Bible)...a really good book that hit home for me on those issues is...
The Case for Faith by Lee Strobel
...check it out!
I enjoyed your other thoughts and the texts you sited. Thanx
Pax,
joel
JT

no- but if that belief system gets one thru thier day
great
JT
amicus

Warning! This attempt at a short answer turned into a sermon. It wasn't my intent. Sooooo...
I struggled with this reply for a while. I have always been spiritually inclined. I don't know why. I never really gave it any serious thought before I attemped to answer Joel's simple question. I just always accepted it. I've never discussed it before, either. It was no big deal, it's like, I'm shy, I like to read, I'm very independent, and I'm spiritual. Yawn. I've always been drawn to ideologys that were simple. I favor beliefs that allow the individual to examine and change themselves without undue influence from others. I think that's the only way to affect change, anything else is control.
I was drawn to the Witnesses, at 18 years of age, because they used the Bible. I had never read the Bible before! I was captivated by the simple, loving, and wise lessons presented by Jesus. I read passages that brought tears to my eyes (I know men don't cry, but no one ever saw me). I was in awe of an all powerful God that considered love to be all important.
I progressed rapidly but within a few years slipped away. It was an intuitive, not a conscious decision. I never doubted the "Witnesses's Jehovah". Who am I to question the creator? I tried a second time, much later, and then knew consciously that something was wrong with Jehovah's Witnesses. That left me in somewhat of an awkward position. I had no respect for the Christians that told me to "Believe" and be saved nor any of the other mindless drivel they spewed. I had by this time studied many of mankinds religions and found all of them lacking.
I decided to examine what I had been taught by JW's to sort fact from fiction, to attain a neutral point from which to begin anew. I started reading the NT. This time with no preconceived notions, just to understand what was really written. I didn't know if such a thing was possible, but at least I hoped to clear my mind of unscriptural dogma.
You know what? What I was reading started making sense to me! The NT isn't about Christian laws. It's not about blood, fornication, idols or preaching. It's about love. That's what Jesus tried to emphasize. Love of God and love of fellowman. It's about each individual trying to treat their fellowman as they would be treated. A Christian is supposed to try to be as loving as Christ! Period! duhhhhhh Well excuuuuuuse me for being easily misled. When one focuses on that, everything else falls into place. The writings that some of us take to be laws were meant to show how Christians interacted, how they solved troubling issues of their day (Read secular histories of their times, you think we have it rough?). They weren't laws that replaced or reinforced Mosaic laws. Laws don't work. Laws are too rigid. Laws are often unfair. A Christian makes decisions based upon a conscience that's guided by love. Groups of Christians sometimes restrict their behaviour out of consideration of other's feelings. There is a balance and a limit to this though. The balance is mutual consideration of others feelings and the limit is don't make a compromise into a law! It worked then and it works today. It's valid in a microcosm or a macrocosm.
So, the answer to Joel's question is, " I'm a budding Christian".
OK, I'm done and I'm clearin' outta here 'fore I git stoned. Uh, I mean, pelted with rocks.
Questions from the readers:
Should a true Christian ever shun an unbeliever, or one who questions the Way?
Answer:
Please examine what it means to be a true Christian. If this is incomprehensible we suggest you begin sacrificing to idols.
TR

Amicus,
I appreciate your ideas about Christianity. It's amazing how humans tend to complicate things, especially religion.
TR
thinkers wife

Grunt,
You really are a sweetheart. Thanks for sharing your feelings. I would imagine it wasn't easy to say all that. And what you said makes a whole lot of sense.
I too, feel the Bible is a message about love. And I for one know for a fact that the JW's as a whole don't have it. Ironic that one of their key texts is John 13:35. They are so quick to quote it and point a accusing finger at other religions. How sad. Can't see the forest for the trees.
TW

Are you Ex's still Christian?

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