SAVE ROE NOW!!! (page 11)

rhett

Yeah, 3,000 people die and while I do agree its horrible I don't think its nearly as bad as over 1,000,000 babies dying every year. Hey, you're wanting to kill children to stop population explosion so I'm just offering a more reasonable alternative to the problem that you seem ever so concerned about. So come on 144, why don't you do your part to do what you seem so concerned about?
As for a hypothetical 12 year old daughter being raped, there is no way I would say get an abortion. Maybe you've not read any of my comments about how its ridiculous to punish a child because of the action of either parent which is what you seem to be advocating. I definitely would not say keep it though for all the reasons you mentioned. There's this amazing thing called adoption where when you don't want to keep a baby you can give it up to people who would gladly love it and care for it as their own.
This is one of those situations where everything is as black and white as it can possibly get. Black - killing unborn children for whatever reasons. White - letting innocent children live. What's so hard to understand about that?

I don't need to fight
To prove I'm right
I don't need to be forgiven.

mommy

This is where I jump in thanks for the lead Tracy

Rhett you said

As for a hypothetical 12 year old daughter being raped, there is no way I would say get an abortion. Maybe you've not read any of my comments about how its ridiculous to punish a child because of the action of either parent which is what you seem to be advocating

It is apparent you have no concept what pregnancy does to a body Rhett. You are saying that a 12 year old will not be punished as her body is stretched, and her internal organs and heart are stressed carrying this extra burden on her body? The minutes of rape would dim in comparison with the 9 months of agony she would have to go through, perhaps the whole time hating that part of her body. Then to have her go through labor. Most that age are unable to have a child due to their small size not being able to pass the body through the birth canal. So she is at risk of having a C-section which is a major operation and takes weeks to get over. If she had hours of labor beforehand making the recovery even longer. Only to after all that hard work and punishment she is to hand over the baby never to see again, wondering the rest of her life if the face of every young child is her own.

Compared to a child being raped, and having an abortion and then dealing with just those issues. But at least she didn't ahve an abortion right?

wendy

think41self

Rhett,

I used to think like you. I used to be a JW. I used to think there was never, ever a good enough reason to have an abortion.

Like I said, things change sometimes when you have close, personal experience with an issue...and you see all of the human factors involved...just as Mommy was pointing out...the health issues involved with a 12 year old girl giving birth for example. All I can say Rhett is that I hope you never are faced with someone close to you having this issue.

think41self

If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself!

think41self

I forgot to add Rhett,

In the above scenario, what if the doctor told you your 12 year old daughter would die if she tried to carry the pregnancy to term? Would you sacrifice your daughter to save your grandchild? Can you not see how sometimes people are faced with impossible situations?

think41self

If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself!

shecky2

people like rhett aren't worth discussing things with.

ashitaka

Hey Rhetty,

I'm fairly open-minded, but that's some serious shit you're talking about there. That twelve year old.......just imagine the emotional consequences for the girl. It's staggering to think how many times a day she would yearn for her child, hate it, hate herself simultaneously. I couldn't comprehend MAKING my raped daughter go through with a horrible nine-month rememberance of her ordeal.....it's just immoral to put a child through that.

ashi

rhett

I'm well aware with what having a child can do to a woman's body. I know it would be quite horrific but she would live and so would the body. Under those circumstances I would in fact say [b] DON'T KILL INOCENT BABIES.[/b} How hard is that to understand? You can toss out all these hypothetical situations all day long but that doesn't take away the fact that over a million children are killed in this country every year by abortion. If something similiar were happening due to waste products the outcry would be tremendous.
My views are not due to my JW upbringing because if you've read any of my other posts on just about any other subjects you'll easily see my views on other subjects. I don't care what the situation is, killing unborn babies is bad. It doesn't get any more black and white that this. Its not due to any arcane beliefs in a supreme being. It doesn't take much to believe that children dying is bad. You can think of all the reasons you want to try to justify the horror of it but the fact of the matter is that when you have an abortion an innocent child dies. How hard to understand or complicated is that?
By the way shecky, if I'm not worth discussing things with then why are you posting here? It seems as if this is something you should be above.

I don't need to fight
To prove I'm right
I don't need to be forgiven.

rhett

Just imagine the consequences for the baby in this situation? Its fucking dead. You know what the difference between your solutions and mine are? Nobody dies with mine. Not only that but you have forgotten to take into consideration how that 12 year old girl would feel after killing her child. I have a feeling that wouldn't exactly sit to well with her either.

I don't need to fight
To prove I'm right
I don't need to be forgiven.

ashitaka

I wrote a response, then this damn computer dropped it on me.

Just think about the girl more than the 'rape-zygote', and the poor girl's emotions, and less about cheap religious conviction, and you'll see the point I had written in about three pages.

Sometimes I hate computers.

BTW, the girl wouldn't have killed her child. She has no legal right to make a decision, so young. It would be placed upon her parents to do the right thing, both physically and emotionally for the girl.....get the thing out of her. If anything, her parents would bear responsibility, not her.
ashi

siegswife

I personally feel the concept of abortion to be distasteful and sad, but I think that women should have the right to choose to have one.

The religious right (GW and Co.) are absolutely wrong to think that it's their God given right to force others to live according to their view of morality. Most of these people aren't willing to take responsibility for the lives of the children that they want to force into the world. In fact, these fanatics are usually the same people who complain the loudest about the pittance given to welfare recipients. They conveniently overlook the fact that the majority of recipients are children.

Do these people accept blood guilt if an unwanted child is later mistreated and killed by his own mother? No, they do not. They think they can butt into someone else's business about such a personal matter, but then wash their hands of it when it doesn't turn out well.

JW's point to Exodus 21:22-24 as proof that God views an unborn child as 'a person'. The revised standard version (and some others) seems to say the opposite:
Exodus 21
22 "When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23 If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life,
24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

I've looked at many translations, and they usually say 'her fruit departs from her' instead of miscarriage, but even those words would obviously apply to a miscarriage in the early months of pregnancy. In any event, this scripture is referring to what happens to the woman who is 'hurt' during this struggle. In is only her death and not the death of the unborn child that calls for the payment of 'life'.

It's clear that, according to the Law that Christians believe was given to men by God, the value of unborn children is determined by the parents (father) and not by society.

SAVE ROE NOW!!!

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