The Two Trees - My Genesis Ponderings

by cedars 190 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Acluetofindtheuser
    Acluetofindtheuser

    I believe both trees had different types of hormones in their fruit. One particular tree would start puberty and sexual attraction in humans. Adam and Eve were as innocent children not knowing physical attraction. Choosing to eat of the forbidden fruit launched puberty and attraction, with God out of the picture.

    God was waiting for them to ask the question on how to mate, since there was no physical drive to turn themselves on. They had no desire to become many and fill the earth so they did not ask him the question about sex drive. When the time was right he would have presented them to one of the trees for their next step.

    Otherwise, if they were created fully mature Adam would have had intercourse with Eve the moment she was fully cooked and they would have had a perfect bun in the oven before the transgression. This would have created a paradox for God if the later was true. A number of perfect babies could have been born before the temptation. There would have been a world mixed with perfect humans and sinning humans.

    The trees were meant to be hormone injectors. One tree launches procreation and one tree ensures errorless cellular reproduction.

  • mP
    mP

    @EndOfMysteries

    Nearly all ancient religions saw trees ass miraculous, after it they somehow grow from nothing to large strong useful things. Im not doubting the ancients knew that seeds needed water and sun to grow, but still its very impressive just how much grows from nothing. Its not hard to see how trees and goddesses were often connected, both are great symboles of life.

    @critical

    The tower of babel is often painted or depicted in art as having 7 levels. 7 as we know is all about astrology, where 7 = the heavently that may be seen by the naked eye. It is said in some traditions that the tower of babel was an attempt to build a grand astrological platform. As i have explained in previous post, astrology was one of the first attempts at man to understand his world. Sure the astrology of today is nonsense , but thas only because its so far removed fro mthe practical aspect of being calendar. We assume calendars as bascic things, but for ancient man, knowing the date was a difficult calculation. After all if any of us went outside for a few months without contact, we would be damned at calculating the date ourselves, assuming we are not cheating by counting, after all the common man of the anicent world did not know how to read and tehreby count.

  • tec
    tec

    I find it ironic that increased literacy is potentially to blame for any confusion over the nature of the tree of knowledge!
    Ouch, my head hurts... lol!

    LOL.

    Forgive me, because I'm jumping in again at the end, but I just wanted to state that it is not the tree of knowledge. It is the tree of the knowledge of good and bad. There were tons of trees. If each tree represented something, then consider how many possible things there were for Adam and Eve to 'learn' or 'experience'.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    So God created Adam and Eve as brute animals. Not that I think animals are brutish, esp. dogs. If we are made in His image what was so special about knowing good and bad. It seems more a description of old thinking that humans are unique and not animals. A trend that modern study of animals proves is in correct for many species. Could this be a reference from the leap from Neanderthals to Homo Sapiens. I have a hunch that this is a pre-existing creation story that is not new with Hebrews.

    Life span and death is startling. During the Middle Ages, the life span was about forty years. You were ancient at 40. Hans Brughel and other painters of those frenetic, child like festival scenes were prob. accurately reporting b/c the life span was so short, maturity was rare. The Romans' decadence and decline is often traced to lead consumption. During the end times since 1914, the developing world has conquered so many dread illness. Better nutrition and more security has doubled our life span. God did not directly intervene.

    Cf. the flood story of Noah with the Epic of Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh is much better written and much more thoughtful.

    I reject the Fall of Man. Rather than disobedience to God, I see God playing amoral mind games. Also, Lillith rules for me. Long live Lillith. Down with Eve.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Postscript. A friend told me she was off to a Lillith seminar at a neopagan institute. It led me to think of Adam and Eve and Gnosticism. I don't know how far back Jewish Gnosticism goes. The Lillith story shows that not all believed Adam and Eve. Gnosticism teaches that the creator God was a minor figure and up to no go, binding us to creation. Creation imprisons us in Adam and Eve. Gnosis knowledge can free you divine spark from physical prisons. It is the tree of knowledge of good and bad that is so impt in the Adam and Eve myth. Christian Gnostics believed that Jesus was not real, but an imparter of secret knowledge. One could become as Jesus with gnosis. I've read most of the gnostic gospels. The sayings are slightly variant but the core resemble Jesus' sayings in the canonical gospels almost word for word.

    I believe the WT writers and GB probably know of this material. Don't we have a right to know about it and form our own thoughts? They don't reject it as much as pretend that it does not exist.

    I w ould estimate that perhaps 2 or 5% of my Bible knowledge is from the Witnesses.

  • mP
    mP

    @Tec

    you do realise Adam and Eve are not actual names but simply labels, namely man and mother ? Strange names...

  • mP
    mP

    tower of babel

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15005b.htm

    The form of the tower must have resembled the constructions which today exist only in a ruined condition in Babylonia; the most ancient pyramids of Egypt present a vestige of the same form.Cubic blocks of masonry, decreasing in size, are piled one on top of the other, thus forming separate stories; an inclined plane or stairway leads from one story to the other. The towers of Ur and Arach contained only two or three stories, but that of Birs-Nimrud numbered seven, not counting the high platform on which the building was erected. Each story was painted in its own peculiar colour according to the planet to which it was dedicated. Generally the corners of these towers faced the four points of the compass, while in Egypt this position was held by the sides of the pyramids. On top of these constructions there was a sanctuary, so that they served both as temples and observatories. Their interior consisted of sun-dried clay, but the outer walls were coated with fire-baker brick. The asphalt peculiar to the Babylonian neighbourhood served as mortar; all these details are in keeping with the report of Genesis. Though some writers maintain that everyBabylonian city possessed such a tower, or zikkurat (meaning "pointed" according to Schrader, "raised on high" according to Haupt, "memorial" according to Vigouroux), no complete specimen has been preserved to us. The Tower of Khorsabad is perhaps the best preserved, but Assyrian sculpture supplements our knowledge of even this construction. The only indication of the time at which the Tower of Babel was erected, we find in the name of Phaleg (Genesis 11:10-17), the grandnephew of Heber; this places the date somewhere between 101 and 870 years after the Flood. The limits are so unsatisfactory, because the Greek Version differs in its numbers from the Massoretic text.

  • criticalwitness
    criticalwitness

    i find it interesting as well what takes place after adam and eve kicked out now cain and able give sacrifice to god for what? where did that idea come from? and why dont adam and eve try same thing? i mean we have indv on death row who make countless appeals to currupt human judges why not appeal to compassionate god? and why adam and eve step in line now and follow orders? youve already taken what you wanted why start doing what your suppose to do now? its like being d'fd but still going out in serv turning in time?how does jw wt justice even work one perfect man for one perfect man jesus foradam but two perfect people sinned?and that closer to perfection idea doesnt make sense either are we as humans going awy from or back to intelectual perfection?

  • mP
    mP

    @critical

    As i explained the A&E and C&A stories are more about respecting social structure and understanding god has allocated each one of us to a position. We must understand this cannot be changed no matter what even if something wrong (murder] is done by someone special (aka Cain]. The priests, who pretty much wrote every line int he Bible, want the lay person to understand striaght away its important to pay their dues to the clergy. We must realise just how influencial and wha ta burder on the common jew the priests were. We have recorded in the Bible that fewer returned from Babylon that left, which is probably a good indication that most people just werent happy with the old system and preferred to stay away from Jerusalem and Judea. The same attitude is very much prevalent in the NT were the writers basically admit what a pain the entire religious requirements have become.

    Remmeber, the Bible is not about morals, its not attempting to tell us Gods plan or perhaps answer history. Many xians today just assume some stories explain certain intellectual problems, thus they invented original sin and use the Eve and the snake story. The Catholic Church invented origin sin simply because it was a business. In the old days you could buy prayers or pay for sins both committed and if you were foolish or evil enoiugh yo could pay ahead. The story of protestanism, remember it contains protest was very much influenced by these payments of indulgances as they were known. For whatever reason people like Luther etc were very much offended byt he wealth teh chrch gained from this. Just ass the RCC was a scam to fleece money, the same agenda drives the OT. We have an entire book called Leviticus which discusses the law about priests and other religious ceremony but no where does it have time to protect women or kids or slaves. The above asnwer is of course that these laws were prepared to give some group in socity an advantage, so its no surprise that theres nothing about helping the poor or women or slaves. Its pretty obvious that no priest or rich man would be dumb enough to give away his slaves, thus we never hear such a directive. Given men wrote the Bible, its also amazing that men are permitted to fight but if a woman helps her husband and touches the other mans naughty bits, she is condemend to have her hands cut off but nothing happens to the fight men. JWs think all those rants from Isaiah, Jeremiah and the countless other prophets are against worhsipping false gods and that is partially true, but the real motivation is of course the fact that the jews were giving business to those other temples instead of the yahwists.

    Somehow i think the jews went to the other temples because they werent control freaks. We can also appreciate the ban on idols, as a requirement from the financial perspective. Its better to tell locals not to spend money on fancy idols when they can give it to the temple and let them build their own idols. The temple in Jerusalem had lots of idols, statues and more, costly decorations, its all recorded in the Bible. Its also the reason why the WTS never shows a full color set of pictures and explaination of the temple. They never show it because that would raise too many questions.

  • criticalwitness
    criticalwitness

    @mp yes the more you read genesis account,as you pull on the thread it all kind of unravels for instance free will and angels so there are myriads myriads of ang bla bla hundreds of thou now a third of these choose to come down to earth and marry women but not one not one single angel! choose to warn adam and eve what satan was doing? or tell them who he was? no angel could use free will in a good way? then i ask well maybe jehovah stopped them? but why would he stop something good and not stop something bad like angels taking women and violence? it just doesnt make since? why did jehovah warn cain about his temper before he killed able and not give able the courtesy of knowing his brother was plotting to kill him? why did he basically put cain in a witness protection program after he murdered instead of protecting able?why did it take two angels and a fire sword to protect tree from adam and eve kinda overkill? why sword? where did weapons or need for such come from? why is god so willing to talk at lenth with the filthiest being alive satan but cant utter a peep to those who love worship and call out to him today? i mean he was at satans bek and call when he wanted to torment job which absolutley made no sense bc if jesus test was only thing that could make things right why mess with job? how do imperfect humans get tested more than perfect ones? i mean if you took a lexus for test drive you expect more in performance and durability as oppose to a kia? but adam got one test thats it and really couldnt satan had just waited till after he was allowed to eat fruit ? and are we saying if he did anything else it would have been ok?its stupid! religion controls masses

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