Theists - Please Explain This.......

by AK - Jeff 51 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  NewChapter

  firstborn of all cattle , does not mean the Egyptians owned them.

  Then exactly who owned them? We've already established that the egyptian cattle was all dead.

  Its clear that none of the cattle of the Egytpians remained where as all the cattle of the Ishraelites lived.

  And that the Israelite firstborns were skipped---it they had the blood on the post.

  The Israelites were to sprinkle the blood on the doorposts of the houses they observed the act in, which means neither their cattle or other livestock were excluded from the destruction that was to come.

  So what was left to kill?

  For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD
• 

  AK - Jeff

  Totally unrelated post. Just trying out a new browser, due to worries about Chrome and Google changes due in the morrow.

  Jeff
• 

  Larsinger58

  the Exodus occurred at the end of the reign of Amenhotep III (who died in the Red Sea) and Akhenaten (Amenhotep IV) who immediately began to worship Yahweh as "Aten" the monotheistic god. The prompt switch to monotheism also was accompanied by the dismissal of the "worthless" gods of Egypt. So that 10-plague message came through loud and clear as far as competition between Yahweh and the false gods of Egypt.

  As far as the cattle goes, the Egyptians were rich. The Amarna letters from this period say that gold in Egypt was like dust. So if someone killed off all my cattle and I was a rich man, I'd just go out and buy some more. That would explain the presence of Egyptian cattle to suffer the last of the ten plagues.

  Here's my video for dating the Exodus:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpkK6XoqRQo

  LS
• 

  tec

  I'd go with BTS post 3999 (there are other e x amples where all does not mean all (whatever) under the sun... just all of whatever is being spoken of), as well as N. Drew's post on the other thread.

  But does this presuppose then that god brought limited plagues to the land? What does that prove to those onlooking? Or to us today who read the accounts? Does it suggest a god of limited power then?

  It predisposes nothing.

  What sort of GOD is unable to kill all the livestock at once?

  One that doesn't want to.

  But it may serve a wider and more important purpose addressed to all believers, as they all suffer from delusions to one level or another regarding god.

  Funny, a few days ago I came across a comment of yours from years back, in which you denounced this sort of black and white thinking. I was so surprised when I read it that it had come from you. You are so far from that with a comment like this.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  N.drew

  It looks like the word for "cattle" which comes from the word for "beast" or "animal" (it looks nonspecific) at Exodus 12:29 does not appear in the scripture for the fifth plague at Exodus 9:3. Do you think even then that people thought of their domestic animals like they were people like they do with their dogs and cats now?

  http://biblos.com/exodus/9-3.htm

  http://biblos.com/exodus/12-29.htm
• 

  Larsinger58

  The pharaoh of the Exodus: Amenhotep III, who died in the Red Sea. His son, Akhenaten, because of the 10 plagues converted to monotheism along with the entire nation of Israel, which is a textbook response to these miracles.

  

  AMENHOTEP III - DIED IN THE RED SEA

  

  AKHENATEN AND HIS WIFE, NEFERTITI, BECAME JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES (MONOTHEISTS) AFTER THE 10 PLAGUES

  Per archaeology, Jericho fell by Joshua between 1350-1325 BCE, remaining unbuilt for 400+ years. This means the Exodus must be dated as far as archaeology is concerned, between 1390-1365 BCE, placing it at the end of the rule of Amenhotep III and the beginning of the reign of Akhenaten. It was during the rule of Akhenaten that the entire nation of Egypt suddenly switched to monotheism, a direct result and confirmation of the 10 plagues occurring at this time.

  The WTS incorrectly dates the Exodus in 1513 BCE, which is too early. Using the jubilee cycle, 1947 dates the 70th jubilee which means the Exodus would occur in 1386 BCE, fitting within the archaeological dating perfectly.

  LS
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  Larsinger58

  OH, HOW ABOUT THIS:

  The word for "cattle" in the field at Exodus 9 is not the same word as "cattle" in Exodus 12. So it is speaking of two different things. But think about this: How would blood on the doorposts protect the cattle outside? It doesn't really make that much sense.

  So apparently, the reference to the animals that died in the 10th plague were pets and domestic animals living inside. Thus the reference is not really to "cattle" but to "household domestic animals". Thus the firstborn of any animals kept INSIDE the home were the ones that died; by contrast, the pets and domestic animals kept inside the homes of the Israelites who had blood on their doorposts are the ones that were spared.

  So there is no conflict. I had said previously that maybe the Egyptians had replenished their "cattle" by the time of the ten plagues, even if only marginally. But apparently this 10th plague killed the domestic animals in the household. Again, obviously, there is a question of how blood on a doorpost would protect any animals outside.

  So all the "cattle" was killed during the previous plague which did not include household pets, but the firstborn of the animals living inside that had no blood on the door were not spared. The words are different so this is a translation issue.

  Glad we resolved that one!!!

  Thanks for bringing this up.

  LS
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  AK - Jeff

  See? What did I say? Theist are willing to jump through any hoops available to explain away biblical inconsistencies aren't they?

  Cattle = Domestic Animals living inside? Surely you are shitting me?

  Jeff
• 

  AK - Jeff

  Funny, a few days ago I came across a comment of yours from years back, in which you denounced this sort of black and white thinking. I was so surprised when I read it that it had come from you. You are so far from that with a comment like this.

  There was nothing 'black and white' in that comment. I was just describing the 'Delusional' - here is the definition:

  Delusion - false belief: a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence
• 

  M*A*S*H

  I'd kind of agree with Larsinger58

  I'm not sure of the exact time scales involved for the whole story, however it is possible new cattle were bought or birthed (although this might not be possible due to the time of year\timescale), between the two events in question.

  If we are looking for 'gotchas' in the bible, I think there are more compelling ones than this. IMHO where a literalist feels they can defend an example of alleged inconsistency they will count that as a victory and it will reaffirm their beliefs.