Theists - Please Explain This....... (page 2)

I Want to Believe

But, according to what I posted above, the cattle didn't all die during the first round; but all the cattle that did die were Egyptian.

So say there's 100 Egyptian cows and 50 Israelite cows.

Fifth Plauge: 25 Egyptian cows die, 0 Israelite cows. Therefore all the cows that died were Egyptian (see how that phrase could, over hundreds of years and translations be mistaken?)

So there could still be 75 Egyptian cows to lose their firstborn during the Tenth Plauge.

EDIT: I see you already figured out what I was saying. To answer your question, No, God didn't say he'd kill them all. The scripture you cited just said He'd send a plauge, no specifics.

Ok - but I must ask you WHY? First of all, when it comes to the supposed POWER of God, why would he just kill some of the cattle? Surely the Egyptians could then just demand that God had not acted at all - cattle die from scourges all the time - but this was SUPPOSED to be a demonstration of the God of Israel's power, wasn't it? Why show yourself to be only Semi-potent while calling yourself Omnipotent?

Jeff

Wouldn't it just make better sense to admit that this is just a folktale? A myth?

Of course to do so admits that much of the biblical explanation of god, as well as the supposed prefigurement of the Christ to be foolish.

AK - Jeff

And back to the secondary point of consideration here: Why kill so many innocent children/women/men/animals - when god's primary target for embarrassment was Pharoah alone? Even killing the firstborn of prisoners? How about the ants and crocodiles then? Or the mice and rats? Why target just the domesticated animals? How about the game animals too - this was important in the Pharoah culture - hunting.

Jeff

And many of these same questions could be propounded regarding god's other favorite slaughters of the OT. The flood/Sodom and Gommorah/the Hittites and the Ninevites. Why does god feel so compelled to show he can kill innocent people to prove he is powerful to rulers?

I Want to Believe

Ah, nice transition to a much broader topic; does that mean I won the first round? :)

AK - Jeff

Nope - the topic is broad though, and if one finds a way to wriggle out of it, he can then see that to wriggle out of the entire question is impossible to do.

To start the argument on the standard discussion of 'Why does god permit and encourage evil' is too broad, or on the topic of biblical errancy. But it seems fair game to use those points salient to the general argument in fair debate, does it not? We can bring it back on topic easily enough - but since bilical literalist feel free to use the entire account or adjacent argumentation to support their viewpoint, would it not seem fair that rationalist could move off the fine point of the argument also?

Jeff

botchtowersociety

Exodus 9:1-6 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh and say to him, ‘This is what the LORD, the God of the Hebrews, says: “Let my people go, so that they may worship me.” If you refuse to let them go and continue to hold them back, the hand of the LORD will bring a terrible plague on your livestock in the field—on your horses, donkeys and camels and on your cattle, sheep and goats. But the LORD will make a distinction between the livestock of Israel and that of Egypt, so that no animal belonging to the Israelites will die. The LORD set a time and said, “Tomorrow the LORD will do this in the land.” And the next day the LORD did it: All the livestock of the Egyptians died, but not one animal belonging to the Israelites died.

Yet in the same chapter:

13 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Get up early in the morning, confront Pharaoh and say to him, ‘This is what the LORD, the God of the Hebrews, says: Let my people go, so that they may worship me, 14 or this time I will send the full force of my plagues against you and against your officials and your people, so you may know that there is no one like me in all the earth. 15 For by now I could have stretched out my hand and struck you and your people with a plague that would have wiped you off the earth. 16 But I have raised you up [a] for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth. 17 You still set yourself against my people and will not let them go. 18 Therefore, at this time tomorrow I will send the worst hailstorm that has ever fallen on Egypt, from the day it was founded till now. 19 Give an order now to bring your livestock and everything you have in the field to a place of shelter, because the hail will fall on every person and animal that has not been brought in and is still out in the field, and they will die.’”

Perhaps the use of the term "all" isn't necessarily an absolute.

Consider Exodus 7:24

And all the Egyptians dug along the Nile to get drinking water, because they could not drink the water of the river.

Does that include Egyptian infants and people too sick to dig wells?

I'd also like to mention that the word used in the two passages isn't the exact same one. Not that I know if it makes a difference.

9:6

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H4735&t=KJV

12:29

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H929&t=KJV

N.drew

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All the animals (that were in the field) died. It's called "save the ink". Haha!

You didn't read my other post, didja?

N.drew

OMG now they're; Police Records and Criminal Records.

AK - Jeff

Perhaps the use of the term "all" isn't necessarily an absolute.

Consider Exodus 7:24

And all the Egyptians dug along the Nile to get drinking water, because they could not drink the water of the river.

Does that include Egyptian infants and people too sick to dig wells?

Conceded. But does this presuppose then that god brought limited plagues to the land? What does that prove to those onlooking? Or to us today who read the accounts? Does it suggest a god of limited power then?

Jeff

AK - Jeff

Drew - I see no 'other posts' from you before the one that asked if I saw them.

Jeff

Theists - Please Explain This.......

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