Why should we hold other people responsible for what child sexual abusers do?

by Lady Lee 35 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  sizemik

  Tal you have unearthed the greatest wrong . . .

  The WTS are trying to protect their reputation. LL's Mum is trying to protect her personal well-being. We have a case here of a girl's school understating and denying bullying to protect their reputation. All of it is self-interest . . . and the childs safety is secondary.

  With knowledge comes responsibility. Any who contribute to a pedophiles ongoing abuse by remaining silent are WORSE IMO for this simple reason; The pedophile, as is statistically acknowledged, cannot control their behaviour. Others who are made aware of their behaviour CAN . . . and should. Even if it only means making the fact known, so that the unwary can take appropriate caution.
• 

  carla

  I have always wondered how many pedophiles (murderers, etc..) would make parole if the parole board and psychologists were held responsible if the offender re-offended?

  As for the wt and other organizations that hide pedophiles to maintain their reputation, yes, they should be held responsible. I had this discussion with my jw years ago and felt the elders who knew a pedophile was in their midst and did not warn others were just as guilty as the man whose hands were all over that child when he (she) re-offended.

  Lady Lee, sorry to say but yes, your mother is guilty for allowing it to happen yet again. She was well aware of his tendencies and by allowing a child anywhere near him she bears some guilt as well, it's as if she helped bring him his victims. If I had to sit on that jury I would have to convict her for having some part in the matter. Sorry if that is harsh it being your mom and all. She did nothing to protect a child because it was the easier thing to do, it kept her in comfort be it financial or otherwise.
• 

  Band on the Run

  Dog law has changed since the first free bite rule. Most states now impose strict liability on owners of dogs, even docile, toothless dogs. There was a distinction between lions and tigers, truly wild creatures, and domestic animals.

  I was severely abused. Words cannot describe my abiding hatred of my father. My mother was simultaenously both consoler, offering greatlove, and enabler. He could not have abused without her enabling. Children are different from adult abuse victims. They cannot walk away. It made such a difference in my life when I started working in high school. I always kept the cheapest fare money to NY so I could escape and explore. She legitimated his abuse. We were told never to lie. Jehovah will strike you down. Yet she coached us on how to lie to teachers at school regarding injuries. Abusers are criminals. Enablers are not criminals. They should have moral responsibility. Animals protect their young. (most of them anyway). A fashion mag told me that he was wrong. The first adults to do so. It was a great turning point.

  Yet my mom enabled not b/c she wanted to do so but because her self-esteem and values were in the cellar b/c of her abuse. It infects generation after generation, sometimes skipping one, but popping up again.

  Children deserve extra protection. Frankly, though, I do feel the WT has a nuanced responsibility. They cannot control every single action of a member. Their attitude needs to change from caring only about corporate assets to caring about children as a moral imperative. They are penny wise and pound foolish. They can retain theri legal distance but encourage protection of children. Their assets would grow rather than diminish. Each time they are sued, a lawyer's time is diverted from more constructive WT work. Protecting children is in their selfish interest.
• 

  talesin

  BOTR

  You bring up a great point, and one that I use in conversations about the issue in RL.

  Children are different from adult abuse victims. They cannot walk away.

  If an adult was held against her/his will, and raped repeatedly, for years, we would call that TORTURE. That is what child abuse is --- torture,,,, physical and psychological.

  As a society, we feel compassion for POWs who are tortured, and finally, after many years, we now recognize their PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder).

  Just *think* of what torture does to a child, especially under the age of 10, who has not yet developed his/her cognitive thinking processes?

  Our awareness of this issue needs to work on at least two levels:

  1. To protect and rescue these kids.

  2. To ensure that they are given the necessary treatment to overcome the psychological damage done.

  NOTE: I see point 2 as an huge issue, especially for boys/men ---- the stigma attached to a man 'admitting' he was sexually abused is undeniable, and it's important that we support men and boys in their healing and recovery.

  Lady Lee,,, I did not say this before,, but I'm sorry that you have to face this continuing in your family. It has been a life-long worry for me about my nephews, and now their children. Usually, I don't think about it, because there is nothing I can do (no contact b/c of shunning), so I am completely removed from the concern (by no choice of mine).

  Thank you for sharing your personal story, and bringing this issue, once again, to the forefront on JWN. I am SURE that many people who are reading this topic are being validated and given strength by your brave expose of your personal experiences.

  to all of us,,,

  And to the men!

  I love you all, and know how hard it is for you!!! Seek some help; privately, if need be. I promise you that this does not have to control you for the rest of your life.

  Here is a link to Sheldon Kennedy's story (NHL player),, you may find it inspiring ,,, he was one of the first pro athletes to speak out about how his coach groomed and molested him. He is a hero .... at the very least, it will let you know that you are not alone. (It's a precis, but there is more online if you google his name.)

  http://www.silent-edge.org/kennedy.html

  Keeping the secret can be more damaging, as an adult, than the actual abuse. You are worthy of help, comfort, and I will include all of you when I look up at the stars at night, and send energy and love to all the survivors, and, yes, THRIVERS out there!

  Oscar Wilde said it best, imho,,,,,,,,,, "The best revenge is living well."

  HEAL --- THRIVE!

  You CAN do it, and you will!

  xoxo

  tal
• 

  00DAD

  Lady Lee, your logic is plain and simple. It just is common sense. The problem is that the WTBTS somehow thinks they are "above the law," which is a dangerous place for any individual or organization to be.

  Their behavior and/or position on this matter would not be tolerated in any other area of life where adults in a position of trust and authority have children in their care.

  Two words: Mandated Reporters:

  In many U.S. states and Australia, mandated reporters are professionals who, in the ordinary course of their work and because they have regular contact with children, disabled persons, senior citizens, or other identified vulnerable populations, are required to report (or cause a report to be made) whenever financial, physical, sexual or other types of abuse has been observed or is suspected, or when there is evidence of neglect, knowledge of an incident, or an imminent risk of serious harm. For example, in South Australia, a school teacher must report a child attending school seeming malnourished or presenting with bruising, complaining of neglect or otherwise demonstrating neglect or abuse at home, to child welfare authorities.

  These professionals can be held liable by both the civil and criminal legal systems for intentionally failing to make a report but their name can also be said unidentified. Mandated reporters also include persons who have assumed full or intermittent responsibility for the care or custody of a child, dependent adult, or elder, whether or not they are compensated for their services. RAINN maintains a database of mandatory reporting regulations regarding children and the elderly by state, including who is required to report, standards of knowledge, definitions of a victim, to whom the report must be made, information required in the report, and regulations regarding timing and other procedures.

  Mandatory Reporters of Child Abuse and Neglect: Summary of State Laws

  All States, the District of Columbia, American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands have statutes identifying persons who are required to report child maltreatment under specific circumstances.

  Privileged Communications: Mandatory reporting statutes also may specify when a communication is privileged. "Privileged communications" is the statutory recognition of the right to maintain confidential communications between professionals and their clients, patients, or congregants. To enable States to provide protection to maltreated children, the reporting laws in most States and territories restrict this privilege for mandated reporters. All but three States and Puerto Rico currently address the issue of privileged communications within their reporting laws, either affirming the privilege or denying it (i.e., not allowing privilege to be grounds for failing to report).7 For instance:

  • The physician-patient and husband-wife privileges are the most common to be denied by States.
  • The attorney-client privilege is most commonly affirmed.
  • The clergy-penitent privilege is also widely affirmed, although that privilege usually is limited to confessional communications and, in some States, denied altogether

  It is both interesting and informative to note that one potential conflict is concerning clergy-penitent privilege. While this is a recognized conflict, it most assuredly does NOT apply when it is the VICTIM that reports the wrongdoing to a "clergy" member as is usually the case in the congregations of JWs.

  I'm a secondary school teacher in the United States. As such, I don't even have a choice about what to do if I even SUSPECT a student of mine is being abused physically, emotionally or sexually: I am legally obligated (mandated) to report it. If I do not then I too can face criminal prosecution.

  The WTBTS, as all other religions, should not be exempt from this clear law designed to protect the most innocent of victims.

  00DAD
• 

  mind blown

  Because others, the WTS and ELDERS have "gaged/stopped thousands" from telling police about SEXUAL CRIMES COMMITED WITH CHILDREN.

  Between many confessions to the elders and or evidence, THOUSANDS of these child molesters would not have gone on to molest THOUSANDS more children, which they have infact done. It's a fact child sex abusers do not stop with just one child.

  I'm positive my Jehovah's Witness child sexual abuser went on to molest more childern and got away with it. My mother reported it to the elders and her JW sister and they all turned a blind eye, but I still remember my sexual abuse vividly even today.

  What is bothersome is the GB and attornys are more worried about getting sued if policy changes are made then what Jesus says about the matter. According to this scripture alone, the GB should be disfellowshipped. Under the law of most lands, because children are minors they are protected under penal codes.

  Mark 9:42

  “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea.

  And if they want to apply the two or three witness rule, there are thousands who are witness to their lack of taking proper lead. They think because they post a little blurb on their site it excuses them from blame...
• 

  Lady Lee

  Whoa I did not see this last night so thank you talesin for spotting it

  There is a great wisdom in the Buddhist idea that the interpretation of an act can be more important than the act itself. Is it really better for a child to label themselves as a victim, perhaps for life, of a heinous act? Would it better if they shrugged it off a

  A couple of issues here

  the interpretation of an act

  One of the major issues here is one best illustrated by the oft stated belief "My father beat me and it never hurt me any so there is nothing wrong with it". Sadly this is often said to justify his beating of his own children (or her). It perpetuates the cycle of abuse because they do not understand or perceive that beating children is wrong both for them when they were a child and for their child now.

  The same thing goes for sexual abuse. My father told me mother he had sex with his older sister (who was most likely the abuser in this case since she was a lot older). He didn't think there was anything wrong with it so had no problem abusing me. My mother. . . well there was so much incest in the family (over 100 victims in 5 generations) that it wasn't seen as anything bad. It was just something that happened --- like a beating. So it got passed down from one generation to the next.

  Both sides of this family "shrugged it off" as if it were nothing. No victims here. They all interpreted it as nothing.

  shrugged it off

  Because the abuses were shrugged off the victims grew up and continued the cycle. Believe me I have had plenty of people in my office who suffered from the effects of the abuse whether they acknowledged it as abuse or not. I saw this a lot when I was working with abused women in a Women's shelter. These women did not walk into my office as sexual abuse survivors even though the majority had been molested as children. But the effects of the abuse were there regardless of how they interpreted the sexual abuse. In fact their adult experiences as women who had to flee their homes from a violent partner were a direct reflection of them having been victims as children.

  When abuse is not treated it has long-lasting effects on the victim. Depression, anxiety and panic attacks, low self esteem, revictimization, sexual issues, addictions, self-harm, eating disorders, identity issues, inability to express emotions appropriately. dissociative problems, post-traumatic stress disorder, a sense of helplessness and hopelessness, and a whole bunch of other problems. I'm sure you are beginning to see a problem here.

  Whether we have the words to describe the act as bad or not the effect on the victm is catastrophic. Few victims like the word VICTIM. In fact we hate it. And men hate it more than women. We hate it because of one thing - it clearly holds the idea that we were without power. Victims create all kinds of beliefs to avoid acknowledging that they had no power over what happened to them. And the abusers feed on that blaming the victim for what the abuser is doing. My father used to tell me, "See what you did? [showing me his erection] Now you have to take care of it". That one statement meant to me that I had somehow caused him to have an erection. Since I had caused it, I was responsible to take care of it. Funny thing - my JW husband used to say the exact same thing. Believe me that was triggering. I had no way of knowing men get erections all the time and the only person responsible for it was them. No one was responsible to take care of it for him. Most of the time nothing needed to be done. It just went away on its own. And good grief if a woman was responsible every time a man looked at a woman then every man would be a rapist.

  When I was in my first support group for incest victims we had this huge discussion about using the word victim because it had such a negative connotation to it. It meant we had to power and no one in the room liked that.

  But if I was mugged on the street by some stranger I would have no problem saying I was a mugging victim. If someone broke into my home and robbed me I would have no problem saying I was the victim of a break-in. These victimizations are minor compared to what an innocent child loses to a sexual predator. The effects of child sexual abuse are far greater than a mugging or a burglary.

  We cannot begin to deal with the effects of abuse until we recognize that we were victims. We need to take the responsibility for the abuse off the shoulders of the victims and place it squarely where it goes - on the abusers and the enablers around us. Because we were children we had no power regardless of what our abusers told us. We were helpless. No matter what mind games were played on us or we played on ourselves we had no power to stop it. Therefore we were victims of sexual abuse. Ugly words for an ugly deeds perpetuated on children who have to power to do anything about it.

  We cannot take our power until we acknowledge that we never had it. We cannot recover until we accept that something happened that we need to recover from.
• 

  talesin

  Lady Lee,

  TRUTH!!!! bears repeating ...

  But if I was mugged on the street by some stranger I would have no problem saying I was a mugging victim. If someone broke into my home and robbed me I would have no problem saying I was the victim of a break-in. These victimizations are minor compared to what an innocent child loses to a sexual predator. The effects of child sexual abuse are far greater than a mugging or a burglary.

  t
• 

  mind blown

  And PARENTS who are more afraid of the WTS then standing up for your children, SHAME ON YOU!

  You should be more worried about Christ:

  Mark 10:13-14, the Bible says, “And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for or such is the kingdom of God.”

  Matthew 18:10

  “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.
• 

  talesin

  mind blown,,, those parents don't deserve the honour of being called such....... xo YOU!

  tal