Atheists..... throwing the baby out with the bath water ?

by snare&racket 403 Replies latest jw friends

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    How can you claim to love evidence so much and let this pass as he never SAID anything about it. Maybe the words have been lost

    In that case, there would not be a scriptural reference, now would there? Lost is a great bucket. No matter what the question, the answer could simply be "it was lost---you can't prove he didn't say it!". No, I can't. And you can't prove he did. But one would think that if he was spokesman for an all powerful god, preserving a few words wouldn't be a problem. But apparently it was a huge problem since his holy law got all twisted and was followed wrong by his chosen people for thousands of years. But hey, nobody's perfect----------er no I mean, only one is perfect-----------but wait

    Oh whatever. Logical questions muck it all up. I'm free of it, so it's not a huge concern. My life is a thousand times better without all that.

    NC

  • N.drew
    N.drew

    I wonder if anyone knows for sure that the ancient accounts that are called "law" weren't orders of what should be done in each case, but a discription of what HAD BEEN done (like a diary).

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    Well they are worded as though they are law, to guide and direct daily life. Jesus agreed with the law. He could have called them histories, but he said law. So the EVIDENCE suggests this was the law. Cuz it was called the law.

    NC

  • tec
    tec

    Stupid computer crashed. Lost what i had written out. Going to rewrite. Even though I think its all been said. BRB.

  • tec
    tec

    Jesus said he came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. He was teaching a new attitude.
    Since God does not change, I'd say He was teaching the attitude meant from the beginning. But that the people were unwilling to hear or accede to.
    Yes, he condemned the pharisees, but he condemned them for adding more weight to an already incredibly heavy load, and for stressing less important laws over principals.
    And for being hypocrites. (though I would say that he called them on their hypocrisy as a warning, not as a condemnation) But what was his beef with the scribes?
    Which is not to say he didn't agree with the law, he indicated over and over and over that he did, but he was also very concerned that people also carried out the spirit behind the law. So the law did indeed allow for divorce. Jesus was not actually editing this. The law allowed it. And the reason, he said, it was allowed was because god knew the people were weak, or stubborn or something like that. So he tolerated it. At no time did he indicate the law was wrong on this matter, he just explained the decision behind it. He would tolerate it no more----new way. But while in place, it was the righteous way.
    He agreed with the law as it was meant... not as it was mishandled. And it was mishandled. (or no reason for Jeremiah's warning, and Christ's woe to you scribes) The law that the people had was not the law God meant for them to follow. It was just the most that the people could hear... and so Moses made allowance for them, and amended the law as it was meant.
    Like my daughter. When she was 3 years old, I tolerated much more whining than I did when she was 10. I wasn't going backward and saying my old way was wrong---but moving forward there was a new way. When she was 3, she couldn't use pointy scissors. That was my law, and it was absolutely right. When she was 10, she was allowed to use scissors. That was my law, and it was still absolutely right. I was not of the opinion that I had been wrong, but of the opinion that time and context had changed.
    It may have been like that in some ways. But Christ said that the they were given this law because the people were hard-hearted... not because they were children still growing and learning.
    Not all of them though. Some of them got through. Who would ever doubt the lesson that Daniel taught them? He died quite old. But his concern was the rape of children and forced marriages either. It was idolatry. Like I said---priorities. It is impossible for me to accept that this god who claims to love so very much, couldn't have taken a few seconds to add a sentence or two. But there were much more important things happening.

    Speaking a sentence or two doesn't mean anything if the people you are speaking to are unwilling to hear and to listen. And if the scribes are unwilling to write it down as stated.

    So are you saying that Christ was limited to only addressing the priorities of those around him? He couldn't start a subject on his own? Something couldn't have been important enough to give a little mention? Think of how comforting that would have been for the victims left in the wake of his father's law. But hey, they didn't ask-----------so his obligation ended there. I suppose it was a woman's issue---and I don't suppose the women were accustomed to questioning their Jewish teachers. Too bad for them.

    I am not saying that at all. He did start subjects on his own. But it is also written, as I said, that he did and said MUCH more than what we have written down. So someone might have asked, or he might have spoken... and someone could not have written it down. Not that he needed to comment on everything. He hurt no woman. He treated women as equal to men. He had female disciples. He did not delegate women to 'womanly duties'.

    I did have a shadow of the truth for half my life. And in this second half I have found the truth. I still listen, in the sense that I will discuss it, but no, I'll never return to believing. I know the truth of the matter, and hopefully have shed all shadows of religion, or belief, or superstition,
    If you understand choosing truth over shadow... then you must now understand that if the law is the shadow of the truth and things to come... and Christ IS the truth... why I will listen to Him insted of that shadow. Peace, Tammy
  • tec
    tec

    But one would think that if he was spokesman for an all powerful god, preserving a few words wouldn't be a problem.

    Truth is preserved through the Spirit. Not in a book. Laws are written on hearts... not in a book. Anything written in a book can be corrupted. The heart and the spirit are what count. The book is a poor substitute for those two things.

    Peace,

    Tammy

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    Well there is no arguing with any of that then. Things written can be dismissed by simply saying they don't fit with what Jesus said. Things unwritten can be supposed by saying Jesus probably did say it. How can I argue against something that I'm assured PROBABLY existed, but is not here to actually be discussed and questioned. Books can be corrupted, even when directed by an all powerful, incorruptible being. And the fullest truth can be found through spirit, which I cannot access.

    It's airtight. Any chinks can be quickly replaced by some mental acrobats. Magic never fails. But it has been interesting to watch unfold. I now understand how hard my brain had to work to hold onto belief all those years. No wonder I feel so much lighter now.

    NC

  • tec
    tec

    Things written can be dismissed by simply saying they don't fit with what Jesus said

    Or taught - in word or deed. Yes. Because HE is the truth. Nothing else. There is no mental acrobatics in that. It is very simple; simpler than anything. Listen to Christ. The rest... a shadow - some truth/some not.

    Things unwritten can be supposed by saying Jesus probably did say it.

    No, he might not have said anything about rape or its penalties.

    But that is not the same as thinking he did not address it. He addressed all crimes against one another in a simple do unto others, and love one another, and turn the cheek.

    If you are raping someone, you are disobeying all of those commands. If you are stealing from someone or beating someone, you are disobeying all of those commands. If you are forcing someone to be your slave, you are disobeying all of those commands. You are also not following Him. He beat no one up, raped no one, stole from no one, enslaved no one. He healed the sick, fed the hungry, blessed the children, showed mercy to and befriended those who were beaten down and oppressed - giving hope and love to all - and forgave people their crimes and sins against him. He laid down his life for those He loved. For anyone who might put faith in Him.

    That is my Christ. That is who I know. I could not have known Him by looking anywhere other than to HIM.

    I'm sorry you think this can all be summed up in 'magic never fails'. Do you think that or the implication of mental gymnastics is any less demeaning than 'baby with the bathwater?'

    Peace,

    Tammy

  • tec
    tec

    I'm sorry you think this can all be summed up in 'magic never fails'. Do you think that or the implication of mental gymnastics is any less demeaning than 'baby with the bathwater?'

    I should not have posted that. I'm sorry. I did not mean to make this about me, and the above was very personal.

    Peace NC,

    Tammy

  • maksym
    maksym

    God bless you tec for your perseverance.

    I enjoy your posts!

    In Christ,

    Maksym

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit