Don't take it to heart JoJo. It's loaded language. Just be who you are and keep on rolling. Only you define yourself. Agnostics are not ignorant---they are humble enough to keep learning.
Atheism 2.0
by Qcmbr 384 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Berengaria
Then again Michelle, maybe it's just a load of crap
Love Rebecca
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Giordano
Lets try to understand something there are 18 or so major kinds of religions in the world. All in direct opposition at least in doctrine, to one another. But creeping up the charts with a bullet and now the third largest 'group' at 1.1 billion is something called................... Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist.
Now ask yourself how many others counted in the traditional religious groups are like so many JWs.......... faders, and non believers waiting to drop out or make their escape, or just to start ignoring Sunday service or five prayers a day? Probably plenty more. In my opinion this might really be the 2nd largest group.
In the last century religion took a big shot in the butt, education, science and medicine surpassed the importance of religion. With the advent of the internet where, shutter....facts are available, this process has accelerated across the boards . They may not be declared Atheists' but they are not affiliated with any religion for whatever reason. In other words there is nothing about religion that compels them to belong.
Each generation world wide, that passes away leaves an empty chair behind in some religion. The JW's have a 67% loss of born-ins. The Christian scientists are dying out. Others are barely hanging on. The catholic church can't get enough priests. A huge amount of their believers have left the church or have curtailed their attendance and donations because of child molestations or personal life choices. Religion has become, day by day, less meaningful.You don't have to be an Atheist or an Agnostic. Those are old terms, old labels that for the most part don't describe what has been going on.
A NON is the modern term for people who have moved beyond conventional descriptions. A non is a non believer whether it be in a god or a religion, Other then the once a year Christmas pageant, a funeral or a wedding, religions no longer have meaning in a growing number of people's lives.
Blame it on the internet...no. Blame it on God............. any of the gods and their sons and daughters. They left us, If they ever existed......we didn't leave them until now, thousands of years after we last heard from them because a growing body of people no longer need their direction ..........Sorry gods we can find the right road to travel without your help. We are Nons...... take that to mean people more confident then ever before. Stick you labels where the sun don't shine, we are moving too fast for old names to stick.
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
sociological/statistical in perspective.)
- Christianity: 2.1 billion
- Islam: 1.5 billion
- Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
- Hinduism: 900 million
- Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
- Buddhism: 376 million
- primal-indigenous: 300 million
- African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
- Sikhism: 23 million
- Juche: 19 million
- Spiritism: 15 million
- Judaism: 14 million
- Baha'i: 7 million
- Jainism: 4.2 million
- Shinto: 4 million
- Cao Dai: 4 million
- Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
- Tenrikyo: 2 million
- Neo-Paganism: 1 million
- Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
- Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
- Scientology: 500 thousand
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botchtowersociety
All religions who call themselves christian begin with the disgraceful premise that we are sinners, enemies of god and worthy only of his wrath, that all our good deeds are filthy rags, and that it took human blood sacrifice to assuage the wrath of god with whom we have an accounting. That every second of the day god knows everything we do and even our most secret thoughts for which we will be judged.
That isn't even close to being true. It isn't even true for all Protestants, who are a minority among all Christians. Your arguments might perhaps be valid regarding whatever branch of Christianity you were a part of, but that is it. The Christian world is a lot bigger than whatever fundy group you may have belonged to. With all due respect, your statement evidences insularity and ignorance.
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NewChapter
That isn't even close to being true. It isn't even true for all Protestants, who are a minority among all Christians. Your arguments might perhaps be valid regarding whatever branch of Christianity you were a part of, but that is it.
But it is true. Why else would you need a savior? I've been to many churches, many branches of Christianity, and they all teach that we are sinners in need of salvation. If this weren't so, then the need to kill Jesus would just be insulting.
NC
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NewChapter
I went to a Catholic junior high---we are sinners in need of salvation.
Attended the United Methodist Church----sinners in need of salvation
United Church of Christ----sinners in need of salvation.
Baptist Churches----big time sinners in need of salvation.
Used to listen to Chrisitan radio---all programs---same message----I have been invited to many bible study groups---attended endless youth groups----went on retreats-----same message. These were not all fundamental groups.
Christians need a savior because they are sinners. What other reason? You act like only a minority of Christian religions ascribe to this------it's the other way around.
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NewChapter
From Wikipedia, under the general headline Christianity
Salvation
Main article: Salvation
Paul of Tarsus, like Jews and Roman pagans of his time, believed that sacrifice can bring about new kinship ties, purity, and eternal life. [51] For Paul the necessary sacrifice was the death of Jesus: Gentiles who are "Christ's" are, like Israel, descendants of Abraham and "heirs according to the promise". [ Gal. 3:29 ] [52] The God who raised Jesus from the dead would also give new life to the "mortal bodies" of Gentile Christians, who had become with Israel the "children of God" and were therefore no longer "in the flesh". [ Rom. 8:9,11,16 ] [51]
Modern Christian churches tend to be much more concerned with how humanity can be saved from a universal condition of sin and death than the question of how both Jews and Gentiles can be in God's family. According to both Catholic and Protestant doctrine, salvation comes by Jesus' substitutionary death and resurrection. The Catholic Church teaches that salvation does not occur without faithfulness on the part of Christians; converts must live in accordance with principles of love and ordinarily must be baptized. [53] [54] Martin Luther taught that baptism was necessary for salvation, but modern Lutherans and other Protestants tend to teach that salvation is a gift that comes to an individual by God's grace, sometimes defined as "unmerited favor", even apart from baptism.
Christians differ in their views on the extent to which individuals' salvation is pre-ordained by God. Reformed theology places distinctive emphasis on grace by teaching that individuals are completely incapable of self-redemption, but that sanctifying grace is irresistible. [55] In contrast Catholics, Orthodox Christians and Arminian Protestants believe that the exercise of free will is necessary to have faith in Jesus
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tec
I think Burns was referring to that entire spiel, NC.
Probably there are some groups of christianity that do not teach that all are sinners in need of saving (to gain life). But those would be in the minority, if at all.
However, I think all are sinners. If you have ever done something wrong to someone else, then you have sinned against them. You have also sinned against God, since He commands us to love and do good to one another.
Can some of it be out of ignorance? Of course. That doesn't change that the person was wronged, but it was not intentional. Of course, if you did something unintentional, and then realized it and did nothing to make amends, then that is still a sin.
Sin is wrongdoing.
I know people get mad at me when I make that statement that all sin. But I personally know of no one who has gone from birth to death without ever doing wrong to someone else, or themselves, or God. (unless we're talking about a baby who never had a chance to do anything at all before that baby died) I mean, not doing something to help someone when you can do something to help... that is wrong too.
Peace,
Tammy
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NewChapter
TEC---that is what the commenter said. That Christian religions start with the premise that we are sinners. The we are not reconciled to God. That god is black and white, with him or against him, so without reconcilement, we are an enemy. BTS is saying that is a minority teaching---it is the core of most Christianity. The original poster thinks it is a dreadful place to start from. but that is where it all starts from, and if you agree, fine, but no one should pretend it is not true. It is true. That is the premise. That is the point of a savior.
NC
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botchtowersociety
But it is true. Why else would you need a savior? I've been to many churches, many branches of Christianity, and they all teach that we are sinners in need of salvation. If this weren't so, then the need to kill Jesus would just be insulting.
We are not enemies of God, worthy only of his wrath, or that all our deeds are merely filthy rags. It also does not mean that Jesus died to assuage God's wrath.
We are lovable and loved beyond words. We are worthy of saving, and even dying for. Our good deeds, even the smallest, are precious.
Why die for worthless things? We were considered worthy to suffer and die for.
Jesus died, not to assuage divine wrath, but to show us a better way and to reveal part of God's nature to us. To quote St. Athanasius: "God became man so that man could become god."