Sorry I did not mean to be rude in saying "if it is true" just my reaction most predictions I read. After all, even if it has indeed been decided by the WT leadership, there is nothing to say they might not change their minds again at the last minute!
Closing down of all non-native congregations in The Netherlands
by Gorbatchov 35 Replies latest jw friends
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Gorbatchov
Slimboyfat, it is my limited English....
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Sapphy
I could see this happening. I think the reasoning could be that the foreign language congregations are a drain on the majority language congregations. In London, from my own observation, I would say a majority of young pioneers move from their home congos to foreign language congs. This allows the young bros & sis to gain a measure of spiritual autonomy which is desirable especially if your father is an Elduh. The foreign lang congs can sometimes get a reputation of being a law unto themselves... some of the Spanish lang congs (in London) are considered good for social stuff.
So the English lang cong lose many of their pioneers meaning their own FS arrangements are not as well supported. The foreign language congs also take up time slots for Sunday meetings, slots for midweek meetings and, listening to accounts servant gossip, do not pull their own weight financially.
It would make sense from the societies viewpoint to re-integrate the foreign language congregations. The English lang congs would get a boost of pioneers and elduhs, more slots for meeting times are opened up, the English language ministry gets a boost and maveric congregations are disbanded.
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Aussie Oz
And it shall be hailed as jehovah streamlining the organization...
but everyone knows closing down retail outlets and consolodating them is an indicator of a struggling company.
oz
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Azazel
Here in Australia some years ago the Potugese congregations as a whole were shutdown and many elders removed.
I never got a definite reason why but a ex-member of one of the Potugesse congs said their was infighting between elder bodies.
Maybe they in Holland want more dutch speaking publishers . Some foreign language groups/congs are great fun to associate with.
Az
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Gayle
In the foreign language congs., there was at least new zeal, considerable more loving atmosphere, more open-heartedness, more social fun, therefore more productivity than the more "established" congs. It was like a' new frontier.' The WTS may have been initially more 'forgiving' of those congs, but becoming now more controlling and suppressive.
No wonder younger JWs would rather go there, and new young pioneers where they would have more evidence of results or productivity. Going where there is no productivity for their efforts is a drain of any energy.
But now the new frontiers are draining, the WTS is burning out their members. That why when I hear of any big results/productivity in the poorer nations with more needs, the WTS will burn out those peoples more quickly or in a shorter period of time.
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Band on the Run
My family is Dutch so I was very excited to visit. My friends and I hung out b/c we wanted to meet Dutch people, not Dutch tourist employees. We went to a fast food place. I understand that they have a wonderful social net b/c society is so homogenous. Some Dutch baker apprentices commented how racist it was in America. Who can dispute that? It was embarassing. Some Italians entered. Men in groups. They were not middle class. Every racist comment I ever heard in America, I heard them describe the Italians. They did not realize how they sounded. So racism depends on whose life is being threatened.
The move sounds very curious. Are there Dutch genes that yield to conformity more than other gene pools? If there is such a vibrant foreign community, why delete it. There must be Arabic JWs in Arabia, and Chinese JWs in China. It makes no sense to me on the surface.
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traveb
This would be an interesting development if it turns out to be true. I would love to hear other people confirm this.
Here in California non-English congregations are a big deal. Huge in fact. The truth is though they can be a drain on English congregations as Saphhy pointed out above. I've asked other JW's about this and it makes for uncomfortable conversations because no one wants to admit it. I've seen it first-hand. Typically, the most zealous pioneers/elders in English congregations get bored with their non-productive English territories and move to an "exciting" foreign-language congregation. The English congregations lose publishers and are left with the non-motivated indivduals.
Often these foreign-language congregations are made up of mostly native English speakers. ASL congregations are an extreme example of this, only a small percent (less then 10%) of the publishers are actually deaf.
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wha happened?
well one thing is for sure, whatever reason this is taking place for, the last place to find reliable, honest information is the WT themselves. They never give the real reason for making large changes, but they will spin it
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dropoffyourkeylee
Something about this report seems fishy. Either it is incorrect or there is information that is missing. Can someone independently confirm?
In the US there has always been a number of non-English speaking congregations (mostly Spanish, but some others), but in the last 10-15 years this has branched out to be much more organized, and many of the larger metro areas will have congregations for Russian, French, Portuguese, etc (ASL too). Most of the people in the congregations are the more zealous of the JWs, who are frankly bored to death with the increasing drudgery in the US English congregations. It is a way for these ones to be excited again to be JWs and the ones I know seem really glad to have made the switch. It matters little to them that they spend countless wasted hours in service, mostly driving around for hours to get to a few addresses where the English congregations say they found someone for their language. I have one family member in a French congregation in a US midwest city... they have never had a single French-speaking convert to accept to point of baptism. But they love it, there is a zeal there that I haven't seen since the 70's... not saying that is a good thing, but it shows that the Society is onto something here.