I personally feel that AGuest and PSac's approach to Christianity is more in line with what happened in the 1st century
Yes but what does the evidence show?
There were leaders and followers from day 1.
What do you know and what do you THINK the Shroud of Turin is?
by Terry 57 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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cofty
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sabastious
How do you pick and choose?
Life, for me, is about identifying patterns across all subjects. That's how I pick and choose in the Bible. The verses that stand out to me because they connect with other thought processes and outside information is how I assign quantitative value. There is but one true God, and if that is a true statement then there should be ONE pattern that can be identified that stretches across all cultures from all times.
-Sab
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sabastious
There were leaders and followers from day 1.
There will always be alpha's and there will always be use and misuse of that evolutionary process. I believe PSac and AGuest are sound leaders. I would guess that they don't even like that term "leader." But it's what they are.
-Sab
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AGuest
Its a puzzle how you dismiss all of the bits of the bible that don't square with your personal "revelations" but quote other bits as if it is actual history. How do you pick and choose?
I don't, dear Cofty (again, peace to you!). I simply put faith in what my Lord says is true, accurate, false, or inaccurate. That came into question a couple/few years ago, actually. I have related that here previously, but will do again to perhaps help you "see" what I mean. I can't remember the verse(s) offhand, but the gist of the event was this:
My Lord said something to me that I shared with my husband and one other dear one. I believed it just as my Lord stated (because he hasn't lied/misled or stated anything false to me yet). So, I was "cool" with what he said. My husband and the dear one, however, weren't so sure. They both "remembered" reading something to the contrary. My husband found the verse that seemed contrary and showed it to me. Well, needless to say, I became quite concerned: omigosh, had I misspoken? Misheard? Listened to a "different" spirit? What the heck was going on? I felt horrible... and I do mean horrible. Almost physically sick. After awhile, I just had to go sit down and try to ponder out what I'd done (because it is a VERY great and serious responsibility to say that you received something from him! You MUST be accurate, or at least try to be. People's spiritual lives are at stake!).
So, I'm sitting there... and my Lord says (something to the effect of), "So, that's how it goes now? You check the Bible to see if what I say is true? Should not be checking with me to see if what IT says is true? Isn't that how I've taught you? Where is your faith, child?"
I almost jumped out of my chair! OMIGOSH! But... I SAW the verse my husband showed me... and IT said...
Nevermind, though. I either had to put faith in what I heard from my Lord... or start questioning everything I heard from him. Since he had never lied to be before, I chose the former: to exercise faith in what HE said, versus what I'd read.
So, I went back to my husband and said, "I understand what you and [other dear one] mean; unfortunately, I can't go that route with you. I have to put faith in what HE said... and trust that what he said was true. It has been up to now, so... I mean, I can't do otherwise." My dear husband said he understood. And then... he decided to look up the matter in another account... and, guess what? THAT account stated EXACTLY what my Lord had said!!
My husband was flabbergasted! And then... he was apologetic and contrite. Not to me... but to our Lord. Because apparently the "lesson" was for him. He had been TRYING to put faith in what he heard (he hears very well!), but due to his former WTBTS indoctrination... and particularly the misuse of the account about the Boreans*... always seemed to have to look up "in the Bible" or other [secular/religious] books... to be SURE. From that day on, he has not sucuumbed to that urge... but simply put faith in what he HEARS. As with me, the "proof" ALWAYS comes... AFTER one has exercised (demonstrated) their FAITH. That is what often occurs, here, dear one: I hear, I share (sometimes while holding my breath, yes - LOLOL!)... because I have faith in the one SPEAKING... and then just let HIM "prove" it... to those who need it to be.
Faith is not always easy, dear one, let me tell you. And certainly not at the start. Because we have so much stimuli, distractions... and others who wish to undermine/sabotage others' faith... is may sometimes seem like a fight; sometimes like a battle that cannot be won. But once one truly understands what it is... so as to ask for MORE... and knows what they're asking for... then it become second nature. In that light, when I hear something from my Lord... for example, that a scripture/verse is accurate... I trust that. Because there is other "proof" of that out there. I don't need it, but another might. In the same vein, when I hear that it is NOT... it's very easy to know: look at/to him. If you cannot reconcile it by HIM... by holy spirit, or by love... it is false. If it slanders God, Christ, holy spirit... or misleads or mistreats others... it didn't "originate" with God. It couldn't have.
Ennywho... hope that helps/explains. Of course, it still might not, for some... but it is the truth.
Again, peace... and good health... to you!
YOUR servant (yep!) and a slave of Christ,
SA
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cofty
Don't get me wrong Shelby, I'm not defending the bible as a reliable source of anything. It just seems to me that you and others want "to have your cake and eat it".
You quote the bible as an authority if it suits you and contradict it when it doesn't.
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AGuest
I believe PSac and AGuest are sound leaders. I would guess that they don't even like that term "leader."
I cannot answer for dear PSacto, dear Sab (the greatest of love and peace to you, both!), but... NO... NO... NO... NO... NO... NO... NO... NO ... as to AGuest! NO!! I am a SERVANT of the Leader... and nothing MORE! Nor do I WANT to be! Seriously, dear one, THINK about it: given the experience of Moses, the Prophets, Christ, the Apostles, Paul, etc.... would YOU want to be "Israel's" leader?????? Omigosh, spare me FROM it! I simply don't have the love, joy, faith, peace, kindness, mildness, good, long-suffering... and SELF-CONTROL... that such a task would take!! And so long as I am in the flesh, I never WILL! You SEE how I am here: these poor sheep! I would have probably been an "evil slave" and starting beating folks LONG ago - LOLOLOL!
Others are certainly more "fit" for such a task; not me... and I don't regret or have a problem with that AT ALL. I am just a voice. One voice. Out of many over a very long period of time. And a very small one. Most in the world don't even know I exist. Most HERE pay no attention to what I post. And I am absolutely O-TAY keeping it that way!! In fact, I won't even be HERE much longer.
But while I AM... while I have the PRIVILEGE of sharing the wonderful things shown and told to ME... I will do so, with conviction, joy, love... and truth! He DIED for me, dear one. And by means of his blood... forgives my sins. The least I can do to "thank" him... is tell the truth ABOUT him to others. Which is all I'm trying to do: set the record straight.
A leader, no. May it NEVER be so! Rather, may any who DO regard what I post HEAR me when I say... GO TO THE SOURCE. And I think some so, praise JAH.
Oh, Lordy, THAT statement just shook me up BIG time. Please... please... anyone here who looks to ME... STOP IT. Read something, okay, but if you have the FAITH to do so, go to the Holy One of Israel and ask to him to tell/show you himself! If you lack faith... ASK for faith!
Yikes... and peace to you, all!
SERVANT to the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with, and a slave of Christ,
SA, who is by NO means ANYONE'S leader (well, except at work - which should be recommencing very soon, JAH willing and may He speed it up!)
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Band on the Run
Hitler had personal relevations that led him to tinker with the Bible and every religion to form a new Nazi religion. Personal views are personal views. Christianity is a community. How do personal revelatiions strengthen the community? Martin Luther was probably one. Creativity, when leads away from traditional Christianity, makes one wonder. Is the author God or Satan or a combo?
I do not have to endorse personal revelation, esp. when the revelation is off kilter and does not address the main themes of Christianity. Jesus did concrete things in the real world. Healing people, feeding of the multitudes, the Beatitudes, many healings. It was not cerebral. Thomas Merton the monk. Daniel Berrigan, the Jesuit. All lived full lives in the world. Works alone may be insufficient but they are an indication.
Also, one would assume that these Holy Spirit revealed only to me would tap into a common archetype of Christianity. I keep hearing outrageous things that are far, far away from mainstream Christianity. Illumination of one seems silly. Strenghtening a community in faith, such as Paul did, makes much more sense.
The gospels and Paul and other epistles, indeed even the Gnostics, have a consistent pattern through most of the teachings.
One claims lerosy which would lead Jesus to have even fewer followers. I choose a brawny carpeneter in reality, alto a Royal Shakespearn Actor is my fantasy. It is a cacophony. Why read the Bible, the Church fathers, philosophers for inspiration. Just make something up. The Church Fathers had humility for the most part. Perhaps not the Pope. Christianity has a core belief with beautiful written works. Sermons were instructive, too.
The Witnesses claim Holy Spirit. I have a feeling that the Holy Spirit led the Spanish Inquisition. The Borgia Popes claimed Holy Spirit. The results of the Holy Spirit are a good way to weigh its veracity.
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AGuest
No, I understand what you mean, dear Cofty (again, peace to you!), truly. I get what it SEEMS like I'm doing - remember, I was a Watchtarded groupie (hey, dear KingArt - the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!) for some years. They DO do that, and so I totally get why you and some others might think I'm doing the same... as well as be concerned.
I promise you, though, I don't pick and choose. I simply "go" where I am directed by the One about whom these things are written... or the One who sent him... or those he was sent to... "accept" from him what he says as to what is true... and "reject" what he states is not (and he always tells me why!).
That's one of the reasons my posts are sometimes so lengthy (ummm... besides my natural verbosity, of course - ): I don't wanna leave anything out as to WHY it is either true... or false. It's those "holes" that have caused a LOT of the problems in the first place! Of course, you are always welcome to ask for yourself, dear one (smile and wink!). Indeed, I truly wish you (everyone!) would. Would give me some of my "life" back - LOLOLOL!
Again, peace to you, dear Cofty!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
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cofty
Shelby - Maybe you could get the bible on pdf and score through all the "lying pens of the scibes" bits and highlight all the good bits and share it with everybody.
Would any of the OT survive in your version?
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sabastious
I cannot answer for dear PSacto, dear Sab (the greatest of love and peace to you, both!), but... NO... NO... NO... NO... NO... NO... NO... NO ... as to AGuest!
Told ya!
I'm sorry if I struck a chord, but you take the lead here, it's quite obvious. It's nothing to be ashamed of you even sign your posts different when you want it to be your opinion or not. When you say "my Lord told me this" you are not being a leader, but a messenger. But to call yourself nothing BUT a servant on this forum? That's a stretch. You are a servant of God and a leader of this forum. I mean no disrespect.
-Sab