Psacramento,
You know I stand with you on this. Christ is the One to whom we turn, and the One we look to and follow.
Peace and love to you,
Your sister in Christ,
Tammy
To my fellow believers
by PSacramento 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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still thinking
What will you do?
Will you take responsibility for yourself?
Will you give yourself to Our Lord?
Or will you follow Man?
Will you follow those that profess to be "the christ"? those that say they com in HIS name?
Will you follow those that say that have the truth? that their bible is THE WORD of God, that their interpretation of this WORD is truth?
Will you put your faith in Man and the word of man, or in Christ?
OMG...I thought I was reading an Awake! issue for a moment then...I feel sick
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designs
Londo111-
I like some of your sentiments but seriously rethink your use of Jews/Pharisees as the 'bad example'.
Regards
Shalom aleichem
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AGuest
What confuses me is accepting grace a conscious act or something else. Can you force yourself to do so?
I can't speak for anyone other than myself, dear BOTR (again, peace to you!)... although there are written accounts that some might need to refer to for corroboration. For ME, both... receiving grace (mercy)... and being called/chosen... had nothing to do with me, per se, beyond the tiny modicum of faith that I had which prompted me to listen... and mainfest that listening by RESPONDING... when I WAS called. By name. I was not "chosen", literally, at the time I was called; that (receiving holy spirit and a "sealing") occurred about 1-2 months later (I don't keep exact count of dates, times, disciples, etc., so I don't exactly remember).
I don't believe I could have forced myself to "accept" something that had not actually been offered/occurred, however. That would, IMHO, require a bit of deceit (perhaps even a lot!)... a bit (or a lot) of me telling myself what I "think" happened... then convincing myself that it did... even though it didn't. I am really not that kind of person. To the contrary, I was a "but how?" and "but why?" kind of child... and more so kind of "christian." Which is one of the reasons the profession... and understanding... of "anointed" among JWs sometimes fascinated me: how can one/you BE anointed... and not explain/manifest it? Okay, so you have a "mild" temperament. MANY people have mild temperaments... particularly Buddhists. So, what? And why do you HIDE it? Those during Christ's day and before didn't hide it - to the contrary, they HERALDED it... even if it meant losing their very lives. And what is your "GIFT"... that says to OTHERS you have even received holy spirit? Because... every person who supposedly had it in the Bible... was able to prove it, in some manner, to some degree. So, what's up with you?"
True, such gifts are not always in the form of tangible proof (i.e., not always manifest in "powerful" works, healing, speaking in tongues, accurate prophesying, etc.); sometimes it is in the form of intangibles, such as wisdom, knowledge, etc. For me, it is interpreting tongues (a minor gift)... and discerning (hearing) spirits (my major gift). How can another know, though, that I do so by means of holy spirit? Because... I don't SPEAK the languages I have had the privilege to interpret/understand (I promise you, I don't!)... nor do I KNOW the things I hear... and share... FROM a spirit, Christ. For me to say otherwise would not only be presumptuous... but utterly false. A complete lie. I KNOW I don't know any of this. And how COULD I... anymore than anyone else... WITHOUT holy spirit?
That they (the gifts) are from the One I attribute them to... is based on what HE told me he would give me... and what I would "do" with it, by MEANS of that spirit. It is as HE said, not as I said, wished, or necessarily desired.
Does having an "anointing" make the one "special"? Yes... but NOT it the way most perceive that. It doesn't make one GREATER than others... not in THIS world; it makes one LEAST - a servant. First, to Christ. Then, to God's "house". Then... to all others, even one's enemies. Because the promise is not FOR this life/world... but the next. One who holds themself out as being "great" NOW... is having their reward "in full"... now. They've "begun ruling as kings" now... and so, won't have such privilege THEN.
The problem... that many, including many here don't get, don't see... is that their uncomfortableness, their chagrin... at anyone PROFESSING to have received God's mercy in this way... is the direct result of the teachings of religion... and, for most here, the WTBTS. It is these who, not only wish to SILENCE the true House of God... but literally "shut up the kingdom of the heavens" before ALL men. Because THEY are not going in! So, some have "seated themselves in the seat of Moses," said you should listen to THEM... and then either mislead, snatch, scatter, abandon, persecute, and even kill the [true] sheep.
Some try to avoid this... by being silent. Or by going along to get along. They don't understand, however, that keeping a low profile among their enemies won't save them. Nor will silence. Rather, these, going along and silence... show them unwilling to give THEIR lives... on behalf of THEIR friend, Christ. Which is why he said, "He that is ashamed of ME before men... I will be ashamed of HIM... before my Father." He that is [trying to] save his soul... will lose it. More than that... he stands to lose his spirit, the being he TRULY is... due to hiding that "man" in order to save his "garment", his body of flesh.
I realize that perhaps you didn't ask for all of this, but I admittedly didn't understand exactly what it was you WERE asking. So, I've shared to the extent my Lord has permitted me... based on what HE may know as to what you're "asking." I hope it helps... and I also hope that, by my revealing these things to you, you can see YOUR way past "judging" me... and others of the Body of Christ... in the manner of proscribed WTBTS indoctrination. THEY don't know who is/isn't "anointed", per se; but they know they are not. They just don't think YOU know that, dear one.
Again, I hope this helps... and peace to you!
YOUR servant, as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel... and those who go with (and some from BOTH groups are here, I promise you, although they themselves may not know who they are... yet)... and a slave of Christ,
SA
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cofty
I have a problem with the ethics of evangelising vulnerable people. Inviting them to accept an alternative version of the christian dogma before they have had a very long time to adjust and consider how radically thier previous beleifs were in error is wrong in my opinion. I'm speaking from experience as somebody who spent 9 years as a christian post-borg.
In terms of beliefs the best thing anybody escaping the borg could do for at least 10 years is absolutely nothing. Read stuff, discuss and debate and investigate. There is no last days, no armageddon, no urgency.
Focus on rebuilding your life and education and social circle, avoid getting close to all religious groups like the plague - you are not ready yet, not by a long, long way.
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Chalam
Band on the Run I don't think this sort of knowledge is that important compared to accepting grace.
Agreed!
I call myself Christian b/c my tradition upholds Christ as God. I can't say a Hindu or Buddhist is worse. Perhaps they have a different but just as valid path.
I liked the way this started! However, according to Jesus' own testimony it finished very badly :( John 14:6, John 10
A more humble person might believe they could never be the Elect.
I find being elected only increases my humility. When I spoke at length to two elderly JW ladies but the gospel fell on deaf ears I asked the Lord what to do. He told me to read 1 Peter 2 . As I read verses 9 and 10 I wept. "What did I do to deserve it?!" was my question. "Absolutely nothing" is the answer!
When you hear the call, come to the Living Stone, believe on Him!
Avoid taking offense like those who stumble over Jesus, and disobey the simple message of salvation.
Blessings in Jesus,
Stephen
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still thinking
Trouble is cofty, I don't think it works like that for a lot of people...I know for myself, I had to explore God FIRST....That lead to reading about other beliefs, religions, and questioning the Bible itself...THEN...I could move on to science...but thats just my journey.
I do agree about staying away from Organised religion though...we are vulnerable in many ways.
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cofty
still thinking - I agree, my journey was the same.
An illustration - All of us who have done a bit of moutaineering have got lost at some point or spoke to others who have had that experience. The moment you realise you are not where you thought you were is a horrible feeling. If you are in a very remote place where being lost could be life threatening it is a challenge to think clearly and avoid panic. It is natural to hope that you are only slightly lost and just a small detour will be needed to get back on course. If you are in fact very lost and getting back is going to take a huge amount of effort and risk it takes a mentally strong person to accept the facts and do what's necessary. Many people who are found dead in the mountains actually had the resources needed to rescue themsleves but they gave in to panic and pressed on, head down, hoping for the best.
When we realise our worldview was in error its natural to hope that we were only a little bit wrong. How many of us started by looking at similar adventist cousin groups - many go no further. Others, like myself seek out bible-believing protestant groups and set up camp there. It took me many years to continue my spiritual journey and discover that even the most fundamental of my beliefs were unfounded and I had been far more lost than I could have imagined or coped with at the time.
All of this is natural. My objection is that it is ethically wrong to encourage people who are vulnerable to seek the comfort of an alternative christian belief. There is no doubt that if I had avoided seeking out a group of christians to study and worship with I would have completed the journey much quicker.
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Londo111
Designs,
I am sorry. I didn't mean to offend. I might be wrong about this, but I have heard there were two schools of Pharisees, one legalistic, the other liberal, so much so that some have speculated Jesus may have been of the latter.
The cycle of Legalism is certainly not confined to the Pharisees, but was reborn with the rise of the Christian Hierarchy that reached its zeenith in the Catholic Church, and once again reborn in Protestants traditions, such as the Puritans. Later, it was reborn in the WTS and other Fundamentalists. As they said on Battlestar Galactica, "All this has happened before. All of it will happen again." The same cycle gets reborn, because the same human condition persists.
It is not to say there are not decent people among the Pharisees, Catholics, Puritans, Witnesses, ect...but often the emergent organizational system does not allow them to flourish.
Again, my apologies. I hope what I said didn't make things worse.