To my fellow believers

by PSacramento 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    What will you do?

    Will you take responsibility for yourself?

    Will you give yourself to Our Lord?

    Or will you follow Man?

    Will you follow those that profess to be "the christ"? those that say they com in HIS name?

    Will you follow those that say that have the truth? that their bible is THE WORD of God, that their interpretation of this WORD is truth?

    Will you put your faith in Man and the word of man, or in Christ?

    As Christ warned his followers and Us, many will come in his name, some even saying that they are Him ! and they will lead many astray.
    I think that people need to trust the HS more and NOT be impressed by those that seem to have the "correct interpretation" of the bible/doctrines.
    I know of a few that are happy where they are, know that their organization is NOT perfect but believe that it is better "than the rest" and that IF they are wrong it's not THEIR fault but the fault of those leading them.
    Perhaps it is because the bible can be very hard to read and understand that many allow others to teach them AND they DON'T test what they are taught ( even though the bible itself SAYS to do just that).
    We can only ever follow what we believe to be right, what we think to be right, what we feel to be right BUT it must be understand that it is WE how are deciding who and what to follow and that it is WE that will be judged on it.
    Now, I may be wrong in my views and in my interpretations and I will be judged on them, but I will be responsiible and I will be the one to say to MY LORD:
    "I studied, I researched, I listened to my heart and to your HS and I am sorry I was wrong but I did MY BEST."
    I will NOT be the one to say, " Hey, I was just following orders".
    I will not be the one to say I put my trust in Man when the Word of God tells us to put our trust in God and Christ alone.
    I will not leave my "salvation" up to someone else.

  • watersprout
    watersprout

    What will you do?

    I will follow the Master

    Will you take responsibility for yourself?

    Yes as only I can defend MY faith.

    Will you give yourself to Our Lord?

    I already have.

    Or will you follow Man?

    NEVER!!!!! Did that once and never again.

    Will you follow those that profess to be "the christ"? those that say they com in HIS name?

    No I will not. I follow Christ Himself and only Him.

    Will you follow those that say that have the truth?

    No I ask the word as only He has the truth

    that their bible is THE WORD of God, that their interpretation of this WORD is truth?

    No, only the Master is the word, not a book.

    Will you put your faith in Man and the word of man, or in Christ?

    In Christ Himself.

    I think some people NEED to follow a physical being, organisation or book... Some need to ahve that physical manifestation... It takes faith to follow the holy spirit, but if those are not there yet they will be.

    Peace

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I agree with you to a large extent. Since I am academically inclined and b/c of being born-in, I focus on refutation of JW doctrines. I don't think this sort of knowledge is that important compared to accepting grace. Accepting grace is very difficult compared to mastering academic tomes. The problem I see is though how do we know what is valid? As Bob Dylan pointed out in Masters of War everyone believes God is on their side. Joan of Arc was a heretic or saint, depending on your nationality.

    I call myself Christian b/c my tradition upholds Christ as God. I can't say a Hindu or Buddhist is worse. Perhaps they have a different but just as valid path. I also feel Holy Spirit belief is a matter of termperament. Those who believe they are Elect prob. believe they are Elect b/c of their personality structure. A more humble person might believe they could never be the Elect.

    I don't know anything. My decision is a conscious choice. I want to bellieve it so I do. It never fails to amaze me to read the good news of grace in Paul but the Witnesses focus on a few passages that are not consistent with Paul's main theme.

    Perhaps b/c I tend to be so intellectual, I want a balance. Nazis prob. believed they were doing what was necessary to save Christianity. Antisemitism has been rampant in the church. I'd rather have questions than neat answers.

  • watersprout
    watersprout
    Those who believe they are Elect prob. believe they are Elect b/c of their personality structure. A more humble person might believe they could never be the Elect.

    What do you mean by elect??

    Peace

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    Regardless of my own personal salvation, this is my prayer for my fellowman, no matter what path of belief or unbelief they follow, that when the time of judgment comes, "During the agitation, to show mercy may you remember."--Habakkuk 3:2.

    The Pharisees were insistent on purity, doctrinal and otherwise. They judged anybody who did not conform as worthy of everlasting punishment. In this regard: 'Jesus said to them: “If YOU were blind, YOU would have no sin. But now YOU say, ‘We see.’ YOUR sin remains.”'--John 8:41.

    In regard to knowledge, Luke 12:47-48 says, "Then that slave that understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do in line with his will will be beaten with many strokes. But the one that did not understand and so did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few."

    And for those outside the Judeo-Christian framework, Romans 2:15, 16 says, "They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused. This will be in the day when God through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind, according to the good news I declare."

    I know many will disagree and I could well be wrong about a few things here. But I am done with dogma. I am weary of trying to reconcile a God who is love with an Angry Tyrant who will destroy (or Torture) anyone eternally who does not conform to one line of thought and practice.

    If we are human, then we are in the image of God, and therefore, I believe we should be able to look within, and discern that God is reasonable, fair, merciful, not a Pharisaical stickler. If we would show understanding to those who we feel are blind, or at least, believe differently, how much more so would God?

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    If we would show understanding to those who we feel are blind, or at least, believe differently, how much more so would God?

    Well said.

    Isn't it amazing how some make God out to be so much lower than simple humans?

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Virtually everyone here who's ever read one of my posts knows where I stand, my dear brother in Christ, PSacto (the greatest of love and peace to you and yours, dear one!), but I wanted to personally acknowledge your thread... and say "thank you," for posting it. I think it's quite timely, given the plethora of topics being discussed currently - all are of some interest, if not importance... but some things some of us don't want to lose sight of while we're "associating" here, yes? So... thank you!

    May the underserved kindness and mercy... of our Heavenly Father and God, the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... and the love and peace to HIS Christ, His Son, the Most Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... be with you... and your entire household... to time indefinite!

    Again, peace to you!

    YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

    SA, who couldn't have said it better than you... or dear WS (the greatest of love and peace to you, too, dear one!)

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    A more humble person might believe they could never be the Elect.

    I hope you don't take this as any kind of a challenge or negative response, dear BOTR (peace to you!)... because that is not the intent, truly. Rather, it's just an effort to share the truth regarding this matter. But if what you state is true it's a sad thing, really, for at least a couple/few reasons:

    1. The requirement is for one to be faithful, not necessarily, humble, initially. "Humility" is simply further training that comes for those who ARE eventually chosen. Because...

    2. The "humility" that Christ speaks of has nothing to do with man... but with God (and himself). So many "bow down," before man... but not only stand in definance to but literally shake their fists at and CURSE God and Christ.

    3. We often think of "humble" as being "lowly of mind." And this is accurate; however, it does not mean "roll over and play dead." To be a servant sometimes takes lowliness of mind; it does not, however, mean loss of mind... or loss of heart.

    4. All of those called and chosen whose accounts are depicted in the Bible were, in some manner "lowly in mind"... as to God and/or Christ. Because they all made themselves servants... of God/Christ and to those who belong to Them. Very few, however, were such as to men. To the contrary, all of these stood up to others, including their own... when the situation called for it. Some, even though it resulted in their death.

    5. Even with faith, the "choosing" is still due to mercy... for those who humble themselves "under the hand of GOD" (and not man!)... and so not something anyone one of us can put into motion. As Christ said, "You did not choose ME; I chose YOU."

    6. I have learned that those who don't believe THEY could be called AND chosen... often deny that truth as to others. Since THEY can't be (in their own minds and hearts!), no one else can, either. I'm not sure if you got this, but that's EXACTLY the attitude that Saul of Tarsus had! In HIS mind, surely, if ANYONE would be called, it would be either someone "like" him (if not him, due to his vast education and zeal!)... or certainly someone less... ummmm... "vocal" that these new "upstarts"! How DARE they speak out as they do... and then say it's by means of holy spirit! It was blasphemy in his eyes... which is why he felt justified in silencing them!

    I often marvel at how some "think" those called and chosen were/are to be. I realize that religion (and particuarly the WTBTS) teaches a state of mind (and heart) that one wouldn't find among those whose accounts are recorded... if they bothered to look. There is no "outward" appearance in the form of a universal, uniform personality trait, dear one. Some were quiet; some not so much. Some contended; others did not. Some outright challenged the Most Holy One of Israel Himself... although with lowliness of mind.

    The are different members set in the Body... for different purposes... and GOD sets them, as HE wills; they don't set themselves. And so, while it might make us feel a bit more comfortable if they were all, say, obscure, unassuming elbows... the TRUTH is that some are wrists, knees, hands, fingers, arms, etc. If we run around trying to discern who is... and who isn't... by anything other than what holy spirit... and/or their "fruits"... reveal to us... and particularly by using our own paradigms... we could find ourselves among those who BELIEVE they are "rendering an act of sacred service," while actually "killing" [members of] the Body of Christ. Those who my Lord spoke to and of... did not consider HIM humble... or lowly of mind... as to them. So what?

    Again, peace to you... and, again, I hope you don't take this as a challenge of any sort because that was not the intent, truly. Again, it was just an effort to share the truth regarding this matter and nothing more. Absolutely nothing.

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • Bella15
    Bella15

    I ditto you all !!!!

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I don't have a clear understanding of the Elect. My exposure with the Elect had to do with American History class when Puritanism was discussed. If I am correct, the Puritans/Pilgrims believed only certain people were predestined to be saved. If you were not predestined, you were not saved. The Puritans believed they were the Elect, in contrast to the rabble of the Church of England. A lot of American literature and history revolves around the Puritan beliefs. Benjamin Franklin despised them.

    The Scarlet Letter deals with it a bit. I've never studied it formally. The point I was raising is how does one discern that Holy Spirit is active in them. Purtians were very judgmental of the silliest things. The idea runs throughout Christianity. Who has legitimacy to determine what is proper for themselves and society in general. Politics and religion were very intertwined. A lot of dictators from Henry VIII to Hitler thought they were doing God's will. My active JW aunt and uncle were so devoted in their hearts. Neither one of them ever believed they would be good enough to survive Armageddon. No matter how good you've been, it is a fresh struggle. You must constantly learn new light. I never felt that I would survive Armageddon. Something tells me that Knorr, Franz, Rutherford, etc. always felt they survive Armageddon and organize a theocracy afterwards.

    I'm not aware of where each Protestant group stands with predestination. Yes, the Scarlet Letter is a great example of the problem of the Elect. It is strange to read American history or read American literature to see what absorbed people in the past b/c most people aren't even aware of the concept.

    What confuses me is accepting grace a conscious act or something else. Can you force yourself to do so? I see huge problems with it. Don't have a clue as to resolution. But I am not jumping off any bridge or doing a Manson act b/c someone feels they are in touch with the Holy Spirit. I feel it waxes and wanes in my life. Again, though, I made a conscious choice to go with the flow. I see no physical evidence one way or the other. God is always on everyone's side! I doubt any country has committed war believing God was on the enemy's side. Sometimes the assertion followed upon losing the war.

    The Quakers seem to be able to function with everyone hearing a different voice. I don't know. We don't discuss even acadmic religious history in the United States of America. Not even to explain literature.

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