"Extreme physical abuse" only grounds for separation, NOT divorce.

by cedars 45 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Would the Witnesses allow a battered woman to have a gun for self-defense? pepper spray? It is so chilling. The Witnesses are not the only religion that believes that adultery is the only ground. Most Bible scholars point out that adultery may be viewed in a broad way. Certainly, one is unfaithful to the marriage if they maim the spouse or children. I suppose it is a very patrilineal type of idea. Infidelity is one of the least things that can wrong in a marriage. I wonder if the immorality of the sex is the problem or not knowing who the father of the children was. Judaism was a rare religion that attributes belonging to the mother only. All the conquests, pogroms, etc. - paternity could not be established.

    I wonder what Roman law was. A Roman husband could murder his wife, children, and slaves with impunity. As with blood, they pick out one itsy bitsy scripture and forget the rest of the Bible.

  • confuzzled777
    confuzzled777

    This makes me sick to my stomach. My sis was in an abusive marriage and as she was talking with the elders over her situation, one of the elders asked what she had done to make her husband act that way to her. If she had not left him when she did, he would have for sure killed her. I hope that my sis misses this watchtower study.....she goes once in a blue moon, but maybe I should give her a heads up so she is not present for this particular study.

  • wha happened?
    wha happened?

    A classic example of a bunch of outdated opinions in a world disconnected from the rest of society, making a medical judgement call on mental disease, and then passing it on to be enforced by a group of minimally educated drones. Honestly I'm surprissed we don't hear of more abuse. It's almost given a wink with zero enforcement.

    I rememebr a sister in the cong that shared our KH, was beat on almost weekly by her husband. The elders basically blamed her, (and scolded her for calling the police when her husband was choking her), so she ran and hid out for months to get away from the creep, ex husband. The elders supported the husband as his wife left him unscriptually. She divorced him anyways. She is aware though that unless her husband remarries or gets into some trouble, she isn't free. Well according to her.

  • AvocadoJake
    AvocadoJake

    The Sheep are told the elders need to investigate allegations a husband, is beating their mate to a pulp. The elders have problems trying to figure out, who is going to be taking the visiting speak out to lunch! With this in mind, how can they help a physically or emotionally (Subjective to them.) abused christian? The answer is than can't, my aunt was getting the hell beat out of her, and the elders were impotent! He finally left her (He being top dog.) in ruins, mentally screwed up his kids, and the elders were the last to act. There is one brother who comes to mind, he cheated with many women and beat his wife. He lied and said his wife was "making these false charges against his good name." he gave great talks at Circuit Assemblies, who would think such a great man was capable of evil? Not the BOE, they were the last to know, she finally divorced him, and he finally got caught with a young maiden. The Moral of the story, is, I don't really know what the elders are there for? What is their job, in the month I have been here, I have come to realize they really are ineffective and impotent with the sheep, but good at trying to keep the little rules in place.

    Ezekiel 34:

    The Shepherds of Israel

    1 Then this message came to me from the L ord : 2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds, the leaders of Israel. Give them this message from the Sovereign L ord : What sorrow awaits you shepherds who feed yourselves instead of your flocks. Shouldn’t shepherds feed their sheep? 3 You drink the milk, wear the wool, and butcher the best animals, but you let your flocks starve. 4 You have not taken care of the weak. You have not tended the sick or bound up the injured. You have not gone looking for those who have wandered away and are lost. Instead, you have ruled them with harshness and cruelty. 5 So my sheep have been scattered without a shepherd, and they are easy prey for any wild animal. 6 They have wandered through all the mountains and all the hills, across the face of the earth, yet no one has gone to search for them.

    7 “Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the L ord : 8 As surely as I live, says the Sovereign L ord , you abandoned my flock and left them to be attacked by every wild animal. And though you were my shepherds, you didn’t search for my sheep when they were lost. You took care of yourselves and left the sheep to starve. 9 Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the L ord . 10 This is what the Sovereign L ord says: I now consider these shepherds my enemies, and I will hold them responsible for what has happened to my flock. I will take away their right to feed the flock, and I will stop them from feeding themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths; the sheep will no longer be their prey.

    The Good Shepherd

    11 “For this is what the Sovereign L ord says: I myself will search and find my sheep. 12 I will be like a shepherd looking for his scattered flock. I will find my sheep and rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on that dark and cloudy day. 13 I will bring them back home to their own land of Israel from among the peoples and nations. I will feed them on the mountains of Israel and by the rivers and in all the places where people live. 14 Yes, I will give them good pastureland on the high hills of Israel. There they will lie down in pleasant places and feed in the lush pastures of the hills. 15 I myself will tend my sheep and give them a place to lie down in peace, says the Sovereign L ord . 16 I will search for my lost ones who strayed away, and I will bring them safely home again. I will bandage the injured and strengthen the weak. But I will destroy those who are fat and powerful. I will feed them, yes—feed them justice!

    17 “And as for you, my flock, this is what the Sovereign L ord says to his people: I will judge between one animal of the flock and another, separating the sheep from the goats. 18 Isn’t it enough for you to keep the best of the pastures for yourselves? Must you also trample down the rest? Isn’t it enough for you to drink clear water for yourselves? Must you also muddy the rest with your feet? 19 Why must my flock eat what you have trampled down and drink water you have fouled?

    20 “Therefore, this is what the Sovereign L ord says: I will surely judge between the fat sheep and the scrawny sheep. 21 For you fat sheep pushed and butted and crowded my sick and hungry flock until you scattered them to distant lands. 22 So I will rescue my flock, and they will no longer be abused. I will judge between one animal of the flock and another. 23 And I will set over them one shepherd, my servant David. He will feed them and be a shepherd to them. 24 And I, the L ord , will be their God, and my servant David will be a prince among my people. I, the L ord , have spoken!

    The L ord ’s Covenant of Peace

    25 “I will make a covenant of peace with my people and drive away the dangerous animals from the land. Then they will be able to camp safely in the wildest places and sleep in the woods without fear. 26 I will bless my people and their homes around my holy hill. And in the proper season I will send the showers they need. There will be showers of blessing. 27 The orchards and fields of my people will yield bumper crops, and everyone will live in safety. When I have broken their chains of slavery and rescued them from those who enslaved them, then they will know that I am the L ord . 28 They will no longer be prey for other nations, and wild animals will no longer devour them. They will live in safety, and no one will frighten them.

    29 “And I will make their land famous for its crops, so my people will never again suffer from famines or the insults of foreign nations. 30 In this way, they will know that I, the L ord their God, am with them. And they will know that they, the people of Israel, are my people, says the Sovereign L ord . 31 You are my flock, the sheep of my pasture. You are my people, and I am your God. I, the Sovereign L ord , have spoken!”

  • cedars
    cedars

    Shepherd:

    If you really were an elder I am surprised at your ignorance. This is basic stuff.

    I've already pre-empted this question in the OP, as follows:

    "Forgive me if I'm a bit slow with the title to this thread. The true absurdity of the cult that robbed me of my intellect for so long is still beginning to dawn on me."

    However, let me explain further...

    I would like to state that I'm not seeking any brownie points for having been an elder. This doesn't make my opinion any more important than those who weren't elders. I was only an elder for a brief period in any case. If anything, I'm ashamed to have progressed so far within the organization without coming to the obvious realization that it isn't the truth.

    The domestic abuse issue (as prompted by the February 2012 Watchtower) has really hit me hard, and made me objectively consider the true ramifications of Watchtower policy in this area. Any of us who are married, even those who are married happily, will admit that we only truly know our mates once we've spent considerable years under the same roof. In that respect, marriage is always a bit of a gamble. It seems that if a wife loses her gamble and her husband starts punching the living daylights out of her, it's just "tough". If she wants to continue to embrace a faith that she knows as the only "truth", she must either keep taking the punches or separate and not have any sex for the rest of her life. We were never taught to think objectively on these issues as elders. That's why I am experiencing this delayed shock at Watchtower policy. The fact that it is a bible command, given by Jesus himself, makes it no less shocking.

    Cedars

  • ScenicViewer
    ScenicViewer

    Blondie's comment,

    But as long as his first wife lives without a mate, he will not qualify to serve in a responsible position in the congregation. He is not “a husband of one wife” because he had no Scriptural right to divorce his first wife.—1 Timothy 3:2, 12.

    My how times have changed. I'm thinking of Pastor Russell and Judge Rutherford, both Watchtower Presidents who were separated from their wives for many years. Neither wife remarried, but that didn't keep Russell and Rutherford from being the highest officials in the Watchtower.

    The Society often makes an issue of being united in belief, being 'fitly united in the same mind, and in the same line of thought' (1Cor 1:10). It claims to be the only truly united religion on earth. The fact is, sometimes the Society can't even agree with itself. Where is the unity in that?

  • ShadesofGrey
    ShadesofGrey

    Christians are not under law, therefore we need to look at Christ's example and personality and the principles behind his actions. I know Him. I do not believe that Christ would really ask someone to remain with their spouse (or remain separated and alone for the rest of their lives) in these circumstances.

    We run into a lot of problems when we try to apply black and white laws to every situation without seeing any shades of gray.

    Was Jesus addressing every possible scenario when he said that a man should only divorce his wife on the grounds of fornication, or was he addressing a certain viewpoint from a certain group of people? If we want to get picky, was he only saying that husbands shouldn't divorce their wives? If we want to make laws out of it, then yes... he said nothing about wives divorcing their husbands... so does that mean that wives can't divorce their husbands or does it mean that wives have more than one reason to divorce their husbands, but husbands have only the one?

    And yes when my spouse committed adultery it really didn't affect me much at all. He had already hurt and betrayed me much worse before that point. Even now when I think of our past, his act of adultery doesn't even come to mind really. No one understood that until I spelled it out to them.

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    I think they have a lousy view toward marriage. First, not allowing fornication by couples that are close to marriage is a recipe for bad marriages, since this is the equivalent of test-driving a car. Yes, allowing fornication at this stage has the risk of getting the woman pregnant, and having it not work out. However, it is more likely that a bad match would be exposed early in the game, before anything is finalized--so the couple can separate before they are locked in a bad union.

    Adultery being the only grounds for divorce with remarriage is another lousy rule. Most marriages break up, not because of adultery, but stagnation. They get tired of each other (and the insane requirements for field circus and rules that choke off creativity are sure to lead to this kind of stagnation). Once that happens, little things get blown up out of proportion because the benefits of staying together are no longer greater than the cost. Sooner or later, abuse (and not necessarily physical) is going to happen. Sex gets withheld because they are no longer drawn to each other, and adultery is bound to happen. By the time this kind of adultery happens, the marriage itself is not generally worth saving. Perhaps making it easier to divorce and remarry with dignity when this kind of crap happens, before too much damage is done, would prevent these kinds of beatings and abuse. And, perhaps if they were allowed to properly bond with each other in the first place and not drained by excessive boasting sessions and field circus, it wouldn't deteriorate in the first place.

    And I don't get this having sex with each other after an adultery being used as "forgiveness" and preventing a "scriptural(??)" divorce. It is possible for a couple to have one member cheat, make up later, and then display other signs of dishonesty after. To me, it is the dishonesty and not the cheating itself that is the greater sin. The adultery is but one symptom of problems--if others appear, that could make the difference between a mistake or human weakness and a marriage that simply isn't worth trying to salvage. And at such point, it should be possible to divorce based, not just on the one adultery incident, but based on an ongoing pattern of dishonesty and laziness on the part of one or both parties.

  • zev
    zev

    what about mental abuse?

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    The apostle Paul says that if the wife does depart from her husband she should remain single.

    If you believe this is instruction from God then he is the unloving merciless one. If not, why bother worrying about the take on it by any religious group, not just the Dubs. The Catholic Church teaches exactly the same, but goes one step further and says NO DIVORCE ALLOWED.

    If you join a club, you agree to follow its rules and guidelines. If you dont like this, then go form your own club.

    Divorce a mensa et thoro. Under Roman law, both men and women were free to divorce on any grounds, though there was social pressure not to. THEN, Christianity (Catholics) got involved and made it a religious, instead of a secular, ceremony, and banned divorce. The Catholic's displaced the Teutonic customs, and by the 7th century, church law was marriage law in England, even after the Reformation. The ecclesiastical courts of England, who controlled marriage and divorce, created divorce a mensa et thoro which allowed the parties to separate on grounds of desertion, cruelty, or adultery. They were still considered married, and therefore could not marry anyone else.

    The U.S. adopted the practice as evidenced by the laws of the Colonies. South Carolina did not have a general divorce statute until 1949. Hamster has a point. JWs certainly aren't new or alone in this belief.

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