Read S. Hassan's Book: Do JW's really fit the cult mold?

by simon17 67 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • simon17
    simon17

    @simon17 . . . did you read the Discovery Channel summary? . . . it's a very neutral source. And very simple to understand.

    No, as I said, I don't have anything against calling JWs a cult. My only point is that reading that particular book, I did not get the sense that JWs fit very well at all to the mold that he said cults physically tend to resemble in almost all cases. Perhaps he just hadn't yet concieved of an organization like WTBTS. In that book, his notion of what a cult would look like did not fit very well with witness organization, thats all i'm sayin

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Ooooo - kaaaay....

    So you haven't read ANY other books on the subject?

    Just out of curiosity, are you focusing on Steven Hassan's books because so many others on this website have recommended them?

    As I stated earlier, that's why I cringe whenever people recommend JUST Steven Hassan's books - I would rather see people ALSO read something from that list I posted - or better still, go to their local library and look up the subject of "cults" and do some research for themselves...

    Of course, an "active" - but questioning - Jehovah's Witness might not have the freedom to check out such a book...

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    I think that is where critical thinking comes in to play. The org discourages it. They spell everything out not allowing anyone to come to their own conclusions---as a matter of fact, coming to one's own conclusion is highly discouraged. I read that book with a great deal of confidence and with a critical eye. While he didn't specifically plot out the WTS strategy, I was able to see where they accomplished the SAME ENDS with different means. Mind control, emotional abuse, isolation, information control---they achieved all of this without PHYSICALLY doing anything. That doesn't mean they haven't exercised the exact same control.

    NC

  • sizemik
    sizemik
    I did not get the sense that JWs fit very well at all to the mold that he said cults physically tend to resemble in almost all cases. . . . simon17

    I didn't come away with the same feeling. The problem when we attach examples to a label . . . is that those examples become a perceived benchmark. Rather than conceiving an idea of the "typical cult" and what it might look like . . . you need to isolate the criteria apart from any group.

    Of course cults will themselves reject the label because it is negative . . . but it's only negative because of the problems cults generate. JW's express themselves as a cult to a significant degree in every criteria . . . and generate all the problems of a cult.

    that's why I cringe whenever people recommend JUST Steven Hassan's books - I would rather see people ALSO read something from that list I posted - or better still, go to their local library and look up the subject of "cults" and do some research for themselves... . . . ziddina

    I 2nd that.

  • simon17
    simon17

    So you haven't read ANY other books on the subject?

    Just out of curiosity, are you focusing on Steven Hassan's books because so many others on this website have recommended them?

    I focused on this book because it it seems like one of the two MAJOR MAJOR books that everyone harps on as being THE books to read where you read them and just go "WOW - I can't believe how perfectly and scarily that describes Jehovah's witnesses".

    This is one of those two books. When I read it, I was very underwhelmed. It described a slew of cults, none which really at all resembled the Witnesses. ANd it gave a bunch of characteristics of what a cult would be like and those often didn't fit very well at all either. A lot of the techniques fit pretty well, but overall it wasn't at all a "WOW" moment for me. And I'm already out so I was expecting a much better fit.

    The other book is CoC which was exactly what I expected and more. It confirmed everythign I felt and thought I knew.

    I'm sure there are books that describe the cult experience more generally so as not to preclude groups, which Hassan's first book seemed to do. Thats all I am trying to say. If I was trying to nudge a witness to awakening, I don't think this is the book I'd use.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Okay, it seemed to me that Ray Franz was even reluctant to use the "c" word. To each his own.

  • 00DAD
    00DAD

    Steven Hassan thinks they are. He said so in his second book. Quit arguing. It's a waste of time.

  • diamondiiz
    diamondiiz

    IMO, wts is a cult. They may not be on the same level as Jonestown or Charles Manson's group but not all cults are of this extreme nature.

    It is true that not ALL members follow WT$ precisely and not all members get punished equality. Now all members fall into the same category as we all still had some identity within the Borg. They have a "leader" which may be anonymous per se, but can any JW go and say publicly that GB are full of shit, or even state publicly that some teachings are totally false? No, otherwise you will be talking to 3 stooges in the backroom. GB knows best, they are God's representatives on earth...... We also have to consider the culture that we live in - free society. While I can understand Islam can be compared to a cult, their society doesn't allow them that freedom just like Communist societies didn't allow people freedoms of expression. In those societies some organizations take liberties they wouldn't get away with in the western culture.

    wts does ask for money, it may not do so face to face but they do imply it in many ways. Have you ever sat through a part where they want to raise money for whatever cause and need a show of hands? Everyone puts up their hand out of peer pressure and you have that guilt follow you to put your share at the end of the month. When a group instills guilt and fear in you, you apply the counsel to yourself and not to the one sitting besides you. In fact, I heard this from a platform on several occasion that the counsel is for us personally and to apply it to ourselves and not worry about what our neighbor is doing. We are told to "personally" (from platform and magazines but not face to face), to support the "kingdom" work, support KH, publications if we take them (even though they are "free"), if householder takes publication but doesn't contribute we should cover the costs because these aren't free. WTS has yearly reminders how cheerful givers are happy by donating: cash, stocks, gold, property...... Sure, not all of us done so to the same degree but the thought was always there and many times guilt caused us to donate. I know I didn't donate a lot but it was more than I would have donated if I went to a Catholic Church (I grew up RC).

    As for chanting, well, we have repeated the same BS every meeting. May not have been outright chanting like some small cult groups do but what did each and every meeting have in common? We are living in the last days, to survive we have to be doing WTS Jehovah's work to the best of our abilities, and those who don't won't make it and will die with the rest of the world who are not JW(implied). This mantra has been repeated over and over so that each active member grows to believe this BS an when they do something wrong, the guilt gets them so they try to return to the wts' acceptable way of following orders.

    Physical isolation, like everything else, it's not absolute but you were being made feel guilty about associating with the outsiders. Do you remember 1Tim 3:16 "Bad association spoils useful habits......" Yup, the people at school or at work weren't your friends, they were you associates! That's one of the most fucked up things I ever heard when I was newly recruited that all my childhood friends were not my friends but my associates because they can not help me make it into the new system. We were constantly reminded on this, so while not physically isolated living on some farm, we were isolated from the world. This applies to those 99% believes who are following the WTS while the other 1% would be those living the "double life" or are apostates trapped in it for the family. I don't recall the David Koresh's followers were all lived together in a compound though many died together in the end. Can you imagine a similar situation with JWs taking place? I sure can. Remember, GB are Christ's representatives, KH or assembly halls may be our refuge during big A?? There is 7 numb nuts running the show, what if they don't replace the ones who die and end up with a couple of real crazy members who tell JWs the end has arrived and to go to KHs and wait for further instruction? How many would do so and what could a possible reaction be of authorities? Could the situation escalate to the point JWs were thinking that Gog of Magog is trying to attack Jehovah's people.... Over reaction could lead to Waco standoff on a larger scale. JWs for most part, primarily believe GB through isolation ideology, control of information and instilled guilt and fear.

    Would JW's die for GB? JWs are willing to kill their kids because of wts' interpretation, so how much would it take for GB to use some scripture to tell JWs to keep GB alive by any means necessary if needed?

    Just few of the points why I view wts a cult

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