I don't believe there is a heaven...

by Snoozy 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Snoozy

    I don't believe there is a heaven that so many religions teach, do you?

    It all sounds like a fairy tale made up to make dying easier or as a threat to make someone have a conscience... I got into a discussion about it with my JW converted to Catholic daughter and she just couldn't believe anyone could feel like I do. I am glad she threw away the JW teachings and glad she believes in something so wonderful but I for one just can't. I guess you would call me a realist? Is that the right term?

    I also can't believe there is such a person/thing as a devil..

    And yet I have morals, I am programed to do "the right thing" whenever I can but not because of any punishment from god, just because I feel it is a humane way to be.

    I confuse myself sometimes..

    Now my daughter is intent on proving there is really a Heaven..I hate to argue with her because I don't want to bust any bubble she may have for her future.

    Just one of those crazy things old/mature people think about..


  • Farkel


    It does not matter what we believe. When we take that ultimate dirt-nap we will or will not know the answer.

    Just die first. Only THEN will all those silly questions will be answered.

    I'm close to finding out before you do, but even so, from all the evidence we have about that, I won't be able to send you an email and let you know how it goes when I bite the dust.

    If I can, though, I will!


  • A&W

    Hi Farkel, I miss your acidity! I hope you are well.


  • Ding

    Jesus said there is a heaven.

    Of course, you don't have to believe Jesus on this point.

    Just pointing out that he believed in it and taught it.

  • shamus100

    Arguing gets you nowhere, Snoozy. Just change the subject. Life is too short to spend on speaking of what might or might not happen.

    There is so much to this world and we in North America are very very sheltered around ridiculous and stingent belief systems. I think there is something but the god of the bible has nothing to do with anything that may or may not occur. Does that clear matters up? Good.

  • Farkel


    You said:

    : Jesus said there is a heaven. Of course, you don't have to believe Jesus on this point. Just pointing out that he believed in it and taught it.

    I'll bet you a cup of coffee that you cannot even prove beyond a doubt that Jesus even existed.

    Until you prove that, you statement is worthless.

    Even if you CAN prove that Jesus actually existed (you cannot), you still have to prove that:

    Jesus was the son of God (you cannot prove that)

    Jesus was always right (you cannot prove that)

    Jesus saying that there is a heaven (you might be able to prove that IF you can prove the other challenges above)

    There IS a heaven that Jesus said there was (you DEFINITELY cannot prove THAT)

    Faith is nice, but it definitely has its unlimited limitations as I have shown.

    Farkel, Only the Facts CLASS

  • Ding


    Do you believe that Aristotle existed? Socrates? Archimedes? Eratosthenes? Plato? Julius Caesar? Hannibal?

    But not Jesus...

  • MrFreeze

    If there isn't a heaven, then it doesn't really matter, does it? You won't know anyway.

  • Shanagirl

    Hi Snoozy, I've always felt there is many heavenly realms outside the Pleroma of where True God source of All exists within the Heavenly Light. Even when I was a JW I always thought of God this way within his realm of Pure Light, and how we are all connected to this True Source of Light and Love. The more I explored this, the more I knew30 somehting years in this JW cult was not for me in that I could not connect to this WT Destroyer god. But getting back to Heaven, I've read in the extra aprocrypha books about the many heavens out there in the universe spoken of as Aeons of angels and godlike ones., who later continued to emanate from the God Source down into some of the lower heavenly realms away from the Pleroma where the Godhead resides. So many heirarchies of angelic creations and dwelling places fo heavens. The Source God, Ivisible Spirit, spoken of in the Apocryphon of John, because True God is Androngenous, emanated from himself a feminine aspect in his light. This perfect holy feminine spirit

    The Spirit then look in the spring of life, and by the power of His thought, brought forth a feminine being, whose light was like His, and her power was also like his. She was the emanation of Him, His feminine counter-part. She was known as the forethought of all, and the perfect Aeon.

    This is the first thought, his image; she became the womb of everything, for it is she who is prior to them all, the Mother-Father, the first man, – The Apocryphon of John

    The Spirit bestowed upon her the followingfive powers:- the image of the invisible Spirit (first man or human), foreknowledge, indestructibility, eternal life and the truth.

    From the pure light that emanated from her and surrounding Him, a spark ignited from him and she conceived another pure lightthe "Only-Begotten Child" of His, or the divine Autogenes as the text called him. The divine Autogenes was the aeon Christ - the "Anointed One".

    Like his father and mother, Autogenes (Christ) was pure and holy. Everything the Son (Autogenes/Christ) have done, he work for the glories of his Father (Spirit) and (Mother ). Here are the Gnostic holy Trinity – Father, Mother and Son, like the Orthodox concept of the Trinity – Father, Son and Holy Spirit; the three perfect aeons


  • Snoozy

    Monkey boy, I'm not arguing. I guess I would love someone to really be able to prove it exists..I may need it someday.. And it sounds a lot better than no existance does..

    But alas..I'm afraid no one really can..it is something that is a personal belief like 'Santa' is.

    I guess the good news is that I don't believe in Hell either..just that sleeping forever ruins my plans for the future..


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