The easy way out

by logical1 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • logical1
    logical1

    Background on me: Mid 20's, raised as JW, never baptised.

    A month or so ago, some JW's were calling on my street, I missed them at my door, but they had parked in front of my house while they hit up the rest of my block. While they were at my neighbors door, I thought to myself "What is the easiest non-threatening simple message I could write on a piece of paper that would essentially give them "apostate" information, without them realizing what it was and shutting down?"

    So I scribbled down "Search Google for Charles Taze Russels tombstone"

    And folded the paper, and put it under their SUVs windshield wiper like a tract.

    Curious as could be, the witnesses gathered back at the car, looked at the paper, said something to one another and TOOK IT WITH THEM! Clearly if they thought it was apostate they would have left it by the side of the road or something.

    Now, I am not sure if this is related, but fast forward to a month later, I get a call from a middle aged witness couple who appear to just be calling on me (as far as I could tell), they could have been hitting up the block again but I doubt it, unless I got marked as a not-at-home.

    Anyway, they start talking about their speech, I identify myself as a former (unbaptized) member who is now opposed (aka an unofficial apostate). They try to share a scripture with me and ask what stumbled me out of the religion. I told them I was raised in it and Google stumbled me out.

    I told them that if they googled "Charles Russels" tombstone they would find a picture of a pyrmaid, clearly not faked as the graves address is posted for in person verification. I explained that the tombstone had symbols of numerology on it, which had a spiritistic origin.

    The first thing out of their mouth was "But we don't follow Russel!"

    I said "Oh? Who do you follow then?"

    "The first century christians!" they replied

    I countered "Ok, then didn't he found your organization?"

    "No, the first century christians did!"

    I said "Well, you belong to the Watchtower organization, correct? Charles Russel was the founder of it. In addition, the same symbol on his pyrmaid was used on the Watchtower."

    I then encouraged them to Google it and see for themseleves, and assured them it wasn't evil apostate information they would find, but rather a picture of a tombstone. After all, how could a picture be considered apostate, its of a freaking grave site!

    What did they say? "Let me share this scripture with you..."

    I interrupted, and said again they needed to look it up on Google.

    They then said something to the effect of me not wanting everlasting life (weak fear based approach)

    I replied with this "Well, according to you, there is no hell, no eternal suffering, correct?"

    "Correct" they said.

    I furthered "And the dead are conscious of nothing, am I right?"

    "Yes" they answered.

    So basically, I have two possibilities. If I put all my faith in the WTBS and live a really restricted life slaving away for the "truth", I might live forever, or I might have been duped, and wasted the only life I have.

    OR

    I could live my life the way I want, and if heaven forbid I am wrong, and Jehovah and the Watchtower Org were correct, I will die, be conscious of nothing, AND NEVER KNOW I MISSED OUT.

    Therefore, as an agnostic, the best logical decision in this circumstance is the latter. Bottom line, I told them, is "I know very well what the WTBS claims, and based on its teachings, if I defy what the Watchtower says, I will never know I missed out because I will be dead, and I am ok with that."

    So the woman has the nerve to say "Ohh so you want the easy way out"

    I really felt like saying "The easy way out? Lady, I'm in the military, I'm willing to die for your right to hypocritically judge people and mind control them. If anything, you're taking the easy way out by blindly accepting the Watchtower as truth, and living off the welfare of the taxes I pay so you can cult-recruit full time"

    But I simply said "Just search Google for what I told you, have a nice day" and shut the door.

  • TheUbermensch
    TheUbermensch

    Wow. I definitely would have said something. You must have some amazing self control.

  • logical1
    logical1

    Well most of that statement I came up with when I had time to stew over it later, I wouldn't have been that articulated on the fly. Plus I fear retribution as I have former employers I need as references who are JW's, otherwise I probably wouldn't hold back.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Well done logical1.

    It could be something as simple as Russell's grave that gets them thinking, looking back there were a myriad of things that only made sense to me once I finally began to open my mind.

  • Lozhasleft
    Lozhasleft

    Well done you ...and a big welcome to the forum.

    Loz x

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    Good effort. It's so hard to to get through. I remember someone telling me a bout Russel's tombstone and masonic imagery, I just said - "Jehovah has allowed the light to get brighter since then". But it stayed in the the back of my mind.

  • clarity
    clarity

    Logical1 welcome.

    Good for you for 'trying' with the witnesses ... their ears are soooo closed!

    Next time they say that they follow the first century christians, you could ask why Russell couldn't find any of them anywhere ... and so he started his own 'religion' because he couldn't find any who had true doctrine etc.

    Funny how Christ came back in 1919 and picked Russells religion as being the ONLY truth and pronounced him the "faithful & wise slave!!!

    Google that.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    It is frustrating to see them weazel out of any logical discussion with off their off-the-cuff attacking responses.

    I countered "Ok, then didn't he found your organization?"

    "No, the first century christians did!"

    What a joke. I can't recall the first century Christians placing Watchtower magazines, going to district conventions or even attending kingdom halls. If Russell didn't found the religion, which group represented first century christians before him?

  • jamiebowers
    jamiebowers

    Welcome to JWN!

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW
    I said "Oh? Who do you follow then?"
    "The first century christians!" they replied

    JW`s don`t think past what the WBT$ tells them..

    If the WBT$/JW`s are a Direct lineage to the 1st century Christians..

    What already existing 1st century christian group did Russel join?..

    The truth is Russel made up his own organization..And..

    JW`s have a direct line to WBT$ Bullshit..

    ......................;-)...OUTLAW

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