A couple of statistics I'm looking for...

by IsaacJ22 10 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • IsaacJ22
    IsaacJ22

    Hi guys. I've been plucking away at a podiobook about going from JW to atheist and why JWs should think about how they treat XJWs. (This will be bigger than my 15 page essay from a while back.) I was wondering if anyone knew where I could get my hands on a couple of statistics I haven't been able to locate via Google so far.

    1) I thought I read that the Pew study on religion found that JWs have the highest rate of people leaving the faith who become atheists. Yet I can't find it. I even remember details about this. I thought they said that 15% of XJWs become atheists, while the 2nd highest group (ex-Mormons) only become atheists at about 8%?

    Was I high, or has someone else seen this too? You'd think I could find it without much trouble.

    2) I understand that the dropout rate for JWs who've been converted is like 2 out of every 3. Does anyone know if there's a statistical dropout rate for born-ins?

    Thanks a lot. I don't want to put anything in the podiobook that's untrue.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    You can find the data in links from this page.

    http://religions.pewforum.org/

  • IMHO
    IMHO

    from the above site.

    Jehovah's Witnesses have the lowest retention rate of any religious tradition. Only 37% of all those who say they were raised as Jehovah's Witnesses still identify themselves as Jehovah's Witnesses.

    But for the sake of accuracy you could ask how they came about that figure. I'm sure the branch office wouldn't have told them.

  • IsaacJ22
    IsaacJ22

    Thanks Slimboyfat. I found one Pew web site during my search, but not this one.

    While searching for the statistic regarding ex-Witnesses who become atheists, I did find that "only" 80% of JWs believe their faith is the one and only true religion. I suppose that suggests about 20% might not be completely fanatical. Or that 20% of them weren't really paying attention when asked the question. Maybe I'll find other useful tidbits while I look.

    IMHO, thanks for that statistic. Good question about how they arrived at the figure.

  • dropoffyourkeylee
    dropoffyourkeylee

    Thanks slimboy for the link, I had not seen it before.

    This probably has been discussed here before, but here are a few of the details:

    The report is at http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/report-religious-landscape-study-full.pdf (210 pages)

    It is based on telephone surveys of 35,000 people in the US, of whom 215 were current Jehovah's Witnesses. They were asked, among many other questions, their current denomination and the denomination they were raised in as a child. The figure of 37% would be calculated from the responses to those two questions.

    The report contains this statement on page 30 :

    "Two of the religious groups with the lowest retention rates are Jehovah’s Witnesses and Buddhists.

    Only slightly more than a third (37%) of adults who were raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses still

    identify themselves as Jehovah’s Witnesses. Half of all of those who were raised as Buddhists

    (50%) are still Buddhists."

    There is a chart on page 30 showing how this 37% compares with other religions.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    See also http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php

    It shows the drop out rate based on Watchtower figures

  • jean-luc picard
    jean-luc picard
    I thought they said that 15% of XJWs become atheists,

    Thats interesting. I was recently musing that maybe the GB is the real

    Antichrist, as most exjws are so turned off by religion that they become athiests.

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    I did find that "only" 80% of JWs believe their faith is the one and only true religion. I suppose that suggests about 20% might not be completely fanatical. Or that 20% of them weren't really paying attention when asked the question.

    Or...among the 80% who said yes...many of them weren't really sure but answered "correctly" according to what is expected of them by mother borg.

    I believe this to be a valid premise. Other studies have shown Americans are more likely to claim religious affiliation/belief even though they really don't participate/believe, because it is not socially acceptable to admit one is atheist. These are the "spiritual but not religious" people, who just aren't ready to come out of the closet.

    It is based on telephone surveys of 35,000 people in the US, of whom 215 were current Jehovah's Witnesses

    Based on that configuration, the sample size could be large enough to tell us the prevalence of jwism in the US (since ~34,800 interviewed reported not being dubs) but the data resulting from jw-specific questions are suspect (how can you tell 20% aren't sure the religion is true when you are only talking about 215 people? etc.).

    I am still a little concerned at the conclusions drawn about jws by Pew and readers of the study, since the sample size was so statistically insignificant.

  • Teary Oberon
    Teary Oberon

    "2) I understand that the dropout rate for JWs who've been converted is like 2 out of every 3. Does anyone know if there's a statistical dropout rate for born-ins?"

    Well, the Pew study linked to doesn't really give much info on the retention rate of converts -- it gives info on the retention rate of those raised around the religion. But just from my reading of various research on NRM's, the retention rate among converts to NRM's is actually quite high (between 60% and 80% on average).

    They did show that the makeup of that small, 215 person sample was as follows though:

    Jehovah’s Witness: 33% raised Protestant; 26% raised Catholic; 1% from all other faiths; 8% raised unaffiliated; 33% non-convert (raised as Witnesses) =100%

    So that "37% retention rate among those raised as Witnesses" figure that they came up with is actually not even based on 215 people. It is based only a total group of about 71 non-converts (which makes the number even less statistically significant).

    The make-up of the group also explains why the Witnesses have not just completely fallen apart and disappeared from the face of the earth yet (as you would expect any group to do that only retains 37% of members). The Witnesses are not losing 67% of their TOTAL membership, they are losing 67% of 33%, which is only about 22% overall. Combine that with the high convert ratio (68% converts) and factor in a much larger retention rate for those converts, and you can see why the Witnesses are still growing at a faster pace than most of the other religious denominations.

    But of course, we are still only basing all of this on a survey of 215 people. If we had a few thousand, then yeah we could put more faith in the numbers. But as it is we have to take them with a grain of salt.

    =edit=

    Been poking around for convert retention rate info, and found this blurb:

    It is a matter of grave concern that the areas with the most rapid numerical membership increase, Latin America and the Philippines, are also the areas with extremely low convert retention," says Stewart, a California physician. "Many other groups, including the Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses, have consistently achieved excellent convert retention rates in those cultures and societies Latter-day Saints lose 70 to 80 percent of their converts, while Adventists retain 70 to 80 percent of theirs.

    http://www.sltrib.com/ci_2890645

    Here is another site discussing the Pew surveys: http://www.cumorah.com/index.php?target=church_growth_articles&story_id=14

    The Jehovah's Witnesses, on the other hand, reported a net gain, with converts outpacing the children of members lost to disaffiliation. To put it another way, 71% of individuals presently identifying themselves as Jehovah's Witnesses were converts, compared to just 23.5% of Latter-day Saints... The Pew survey documents that the LDS Church is significantly more successful than Jehovah's Witnesses at retaining (at least in the sense of retaining self-identified religious preference) individuals born in the faith, but is much less successful at retaining baptized converts... In contrast, the Jehovah's Witness proselyting program has been substantially more effective when assessed not from the angle of raw baptismal statistics, but from the perspective of making and retaining adult converts who continue to affiliate with the faith and constitute the bulk of its committed membership. The Witnesses' own annual statistics consistently demonstrate retention of 55-65% of baptized converts worldwide, more than double LDS convert retention rates.

  • IsaacJ22
    IsaacJ22

    Thanks to everyone for your comments. I noticed that the survey size was small, too. I will have to mention that out of fairness if I use the data in my podiobook.

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