by Hairyhegoat 21 Replies latest jw friends
Well this is great, I have just come off the phone to the police in Tamworth Staffordshire about this damming WT, and they say it's already known to them.....
We have been told to contact PC 14..... tomorrow and to expect a call from the diversity unit and they will need to call round to gather evidence regarding the WT mags calling us mentally diseased....
HHG
Wow! It is opinion, not fact, very obviously. Why not embrace it as a badge of honor? I would research that the Roman Catholic Church said about famous dissenters, such as Galileo. Also, the Protestant who burned witches for land grabs. And carry it over to "mentally diseased." Christians were called perjorative words by the Romans. The more regular people who here such statements from an overbearing, unpopular cult, the more people will see that they are a cult.
I thinking of Joan of Arc specifically.
The Witnesses are not psychiatrist or psychologists who can make an informed diagnosis under DSM-IV or whatever the current number is. It is a tad similar to the Westboro Baptist Church.
Paul wrote famously of the folly of Christ, a stumbling block for the nations. Embrace being called mentally diseased by them. Everyone knows it is way over the top. When you call your adversary by such a term, it shows the power your adversary has. It is asign that the apostates are driving them bonkers. A smarter move from them might be just to ignore apostates.
We will do everything in our power to bring this cult down..They owe me 44 years of my life. I am working on how much money they have stole from me and my family..The WT will pay one way or another, for turning my family against me...Mark my words.. you GB will pay..with your ass when you get sent to prison. Don't bend down to pick up the golden rivet
HHG
These quotes , which Blondie put on another thread may be of interest to them and anyone wishing to bring the Watchtower's hate campaign to the attention of the various authorities:
The Watchtower, October 1, 1952, p. 599
: "We must hate in the truest sense, which is to regard with extreme and active aversion, to consider as loathsome, odious, filthy, to detest. Surely any haters of God are not fit to live on his beautiful earth. What do you do with anything loathsome or repugnant that you detest and abhor? The answer is simple. You get away from it or remove it from your presence."
The Watchtower, July 15, 1961, p. 420:
"When a person persists in a way of badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of his make-up, then in order to hate what is bad a Christian must hate the person with whom the badness is inseparably linked…Jesus did not mean for us to love the hardened enemies of Jehovah."
The Watchtower, July 15, 1974, p. 442
: "You have seen the benefit of godly love, but do you know how to hate? These very strong words are an expression of godly hate, and you too must have this quality to be pleasing to God. Hate causes a feeling of disgust to well up inside you. You loathe, abhor, despise the object of your hatred. Godly hatred never has as its object our Christian brothers, no matter how imperfect."
The Watchtower, June 15, 1980, p. 8:
"More than that, we want to hate those who willfully show themselves haters of Jehovah, haters of what is good."
The Watchtower, October 1, 1993, p. 19
: "Apostasy is, in reality, a rebellion against Jehovah. Some apostates profess to know and serve God, but they reject teachings or requirements set out in his Word. Others claim to believe the Bible, but they reject Jehovah's organization and actively try to hinder its work. When they deliberately choose such badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of their makeup, then a Christian must hate (in the Biblical sense of the word) those who have inseparable attached themselves to the badness."
Excellent work HHG.
I feel the November 15th article may be worthy of a mention, in the light of recent work that has been put in by DT on the following thread:
Here's what the article in question says on page 5:
JEHU TOLERATED NO RIVALRY TOWARD JEHOVAH
Jehu’s motive for carrying out his commission is evident from his subsequent words to faithful Jehonadab: “Do go along with me and look uponmy toleration of no rivalry toward Jehovah.” Jehonadab accepted that invitation, got into Jehu’s chariot, and rode with him to Samaria. There, Jehu “acted slyly, for the purpose of destroying theworshipers of Baal.”—2 Ki.10:15-17,19.
Jehu announced that he intended to hold “a great sacrifice” for Baal. (2 Ki. 10:18, 19) “This is a clever play onwords on the part of Jehu,” says one scholar. While the term employed here “generally means ‘sacrifice,’ it is also used of the ‘slaughter’ of apostates.” Because Jehu did not want any Baal worshippers to miss this event, he assembled all of them in the house of Baal and had them dress in distinctive attire. “As soon as he finished rendering up the burnt offering,” Jehu had 80 armed men slaughter Baal’s devotees. He then had the house of Baal demolished and its site set aside for privies, making it unfit for worship.—2 Ki. 10:20-27.
It is true that Jehu spilled much blood. Yet, the Scriptures present him as a courageous man who freed Israel from the oppressive domination of Jezebel and her family. If any leader of Israel was to succeed in doing this, he had to be a man of courage, determination, and zeal.“It was rough work and was executed with relentless thoroughness,” comments one Bible dictionary. “Gentler measures probably would have failed to eradicate Baal worship from Israel.”
No doubt you can see that circumstances faced by Christians today require that they manifest certain qualities possessed by Jehu. For instance, how should we react if tempted to engage in any activity that Jehovah condemns? We should be prompt, courageous, and dynamic in rejecting it. When it comes to our godly devotion, we cannot tolerate any rivalry toward Jehovah.
I was at first dismissive of this article as it seems quite vague on first reading. However, in the light of recent research done by DT where he/she succeeded in getting the actual book, the 1985 'Word Biblical Commentary' by the bible scholar T. R. Hobbs and checking the context of his quote, I actually feel that the language used in this article may be considered extremely inflammatory in the context of UK hate laws.
Here is DTs post with the context, in which the bible scholar DENOUNCES Jehu's behavior:
I finally received a copy of the Word Biblical Commentary Volume 13. Here is the context of that quote from the section discussing 2 Kings chapter 10 on page 129.
"18 Jehu's attempt to rid Israel of Baal worship constitutes the second thrust of his revolt, a religious purge. The episode is again characterized by its portrayal of the ruthless deceit of Jehu (Hebrew words) "Ahab served Baal a little." This might well be an accurate description of Ahab. Although he did build the Baal temple (1Kgs 16:32), he also named his sons Ahaziah and Jehoram, names that bear the divine name. However, the point cannot be pressed since the biblical verdict on Ahab is far from flattering (1Kgs 16:33). Jehu's statement is born of his deceit. If the Israelites had thought that Ahab was apostate, Jehu wished them to believe that he was far worse.
19 (Hebrew Words) "for a great sacrifice." This is a clever play on words on the part of Jehu. While the term (Hebrew word) generally means "sacrifice," it is also used of the "slaughter" of apostates (cf. 1 Kgs 13:2: 2 Kgs 23:20). The writer's comment concerning Jehu's intention also contains a sinister pun on the homonyms (Hebrew word) "to serve" and (Hebrew word) "to destroy.""
Later he has this to say:
"23-24 Jehu's actions are hardly commendable. The deliberate way he sets up the worshipers of Baal for extermination gives a chilling view of his character."
From this I conclude that he was using the normal meaning of the term apostates and was referring to worshipers of Baal specifically. He doesn't seem to be endorsing the loaded language that is used by the Watchtower Society when they speak of apostates. He is also critical of Jehu, which contrasts with the way the Watchtower Society praises him and almost treats him like a hero.
I thought it was interesting what 2 Kings 10:31 (KJV) says, "But Jehu took no heed to walk in the law of the LORD God of Israel with all his heart: for he departed not from the sins of Jeroboam, which made Israel to sin."
By Watchtower standards, Jehu was also an apostate.
So in summary, the Watchtower lauds Jehu as being 'courageous, determined, zealous, relentlessly thorough, and calls for Christians today to imitate his actions (which included the "slaughter of apostates") by being similarly "prompt, courageous and dynamic" in tolerating no rivalry towards Jehovah.
In making this assertion, they use the provocative language "slaughter of apostates" which is taken out of context from a book in which the actions of Jehu are denounced as ruthless, deceitful, sinister, and "hardly commendable".
I feel, when considering all of the above, the above evidence should be passed on to the police as a recent example of the Watchtower's hate language.
Cedars
I wonder if it is worth replicating this effort in Scotland as we have a separate legal system up here. Has anyone got any views?
OK Guys - What about the UK charity commission?
How do we approach them?
There is live chat on www.thebroad.com tonight at 8pm shall we work out a strategy then?
They have said worse about the Catholic church and got away with it. Why should this be any different?
Snoozy...Sticks and stones...you know the rest..
It's different because the of relatively new hate laws in the UK
I don't think I'll be able to make it to the chat tonight, although I should probably share the following information...
I emailed the Charity Commission recently to ask them what the total Gift Aid payments to the Society were last year, because this information is not available on their website. The Society is listed under two separate names in the UK - International Bible Students Association and Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Britain. Full accounts for both charities are downloadable from the Charity Commission's website. Both charities will be liable to receive government Gift Aid payments on all donations received. There are also the thousands of congregations in the UK, each of which are registered as their own separate charity. I believe the total government payments for Society charities and congregations will run into the millions, not including the fact that Society charities are exempt from paying Corporation Tax.
I was disappointed by the response I received. It appears that the Charity Commission do not keep that information, and they have advised me to approach either the HMRC (who made the payments) or approach the charities directly. I have expressed my surprise that such information is not already in the public domain, since it is essentially tax payers' money we are talking about - but that's how it is.
Unfortunately I'm not in a position at the moment to write to the HMRC and create a paper trail. Perhaps someone like Cantleave could pick up the thread? I am of the belief that the Charity Commission won't budge on this unless they come under media pressure, and they won't come under media pressure unless we have an exact figure. That's just how I see things based on what I've observed.
