Lol at Awake quote about gayz!

by TimothyT 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • bioflex
    bioflex

    I always seem to have a problem with the way the wt$ like to explain stuff, but either way when it comes to homosexuality i cant seem to understand how that is justifiable.

    PSacramento quote : A gay friend of mine once said, " My life as a gay person is very hard, it would be far easier to NOT be gay, No one chooses to be gay Paul, no one choose to have a harder and more difficult life IF they have a choice".

    so why then is he gay?.. was he born gay?..did he ever think he would have been born if he had gay parents?. Its one thing not knowing what is right and its totally something else knowing what is right and not doing it.

    even animals know better when it comes to sexual preferences.

  • Quendi
    Quendi

    I remember when that article was published in Awake! and it made a tremendous impact on me at the time. It convinced me that my sexual identity was one of deliberate choice and that I could change it if I wanted. I was young, naive, and sincerely believed that the WTS was God's organization so what was printed in the publications had to be the truth. I am so glad I no longer think that way, but at the time I thought this was the right path to follow.

    Looking back now over a thirty-five year perspective, I have to wonder how much real harm articles like this did to many Witnesses, young men in particular. Sadly, the one cited in this thread was not the first or last of its kind. There were others that were nothing more than fairy-tales, filled with examples of gay men who had found "a loving Christian woman" to marry, had settled down, fathered children, and were now living happily ever after with their families. The WTS maintained this was the course of action for any gay man to follow, and if he did he could be certain of Jehovah's blessing upon him and all he did. I have often wondered what the status of the men referenced in those articles is now. Are they still living 'happily ever after'? Are they still married, or did they finally realize they were living a lie and leave their spouses? Are they even still alive or did they choose suicide as the only way out as so many in their situation have? Naturally, you will read of no follow through in WTS publications.

    When I was in the long struggle with my judicial committee about my reinstatement, one of the elders gave me a thick wad of papers containing all the WTS thinking on homosexuality as presented in the publications down through the years, asking me to look up the references. He was quite upset when I told him that my research had shown that WTS teaching on homosexuality was "inadequate, incomplete, and insufficient." The falsehoods, half-truths, and misapplied scriptures made the information completely useless. Furthermore, I knew that what I was telling him was true from life experience--my own and that of other gay men I knew. I didn't need the ivory tower musings of old men in Brooklyn to tell me otherwise.

    The WTS attitude and teaching about homosexuality was a big factor--though not the only one--in my decision to sever all ties with it. I reasoned that if this organization truly was led by holy spirit, it would have put forth the fruitage of the spirit in its dealings with people like me. But instead of "love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-contol", all I received were anger, hatred, bigotry and ignorance. It took time, but I finally made good my escape and have been all the better for it.

    Quendi

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    PSacramento quote : A gay friend of mine once said, " My life as a gay person is very hard, it would be far easier to NOT be gay, No one chooses to be gay Paul, no one choose to have a harder and more difficult life IF they have a choice".
    so why then is he gay?.. was he born gay?..did he ever think he would have been born if he had gay parents?. Its one thing not knowing what is right and its totally something else knowing what is right and not doing it.

    Whether a person is born gay or not has not been proven, but there seems to be more idication towards the YES than the NO, but as of right now, it is unknown.

    even animals know better when it comes to sexual preferences

    Well, they DON'T since homosesuality is prevelant in many species inparticular the ape-related ones.

    But that is irrelevant to whether or not one choose to be gay.

    No one is discussing acting on those feelings though, that isn't the point.

    Even if one chooses NOT to be homosexual in the sense of sexual relations, it doesn't change the a person IS homosexual.

    No more than a hetrosexual choosing NOT to h ave ANY sex makes him/her less of a hetrosexual.

  • Mary
    Mary

    Count your lucky stars. At least the article doesn't say you're "mentally diseased" and insinuate that they'd like to slaughter homosexuals like they would 'postates!!

    Then again, in Dub-dumb land, it matters not if you're gay or an apostate......Jehover's gonna murder us all...........

  • TimothyT
    TimothyT

    If it makes any difference, i knew i was gay from a young age and i didnt feel any previous kind of stimulus to make me want to be gay. My brother and I had a wonderfuly balanced upbringing, yet he is straight and im not. Personaly i feel nurture has a lot to play in the matter, but from my own personal thoughts and experience i feel this trait is deeply ingrained in me and has been since before i can remember (nature)!

    Very true Mary... plus one can be a homo and be mentaly diseased remember! :) Im sure in there books im worthy of double death! :)

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Nature and nurture work together Tim, it's never been a case of either/or no matter how much soem people think it is.

  • TimothyT
    TimothyT

    Thats exactly what i said.

    "Nurture has a lot to play in the matter, but from my own personal thoughts and experience i feel this trait is deeply ingrained in me and has been since before i can remember (nature)"

    I believe the feeling was inborn in me, but no doubt that i and others have somehow nurtured my own feelings and desires. I do tend to lean towards the nature side though.

  • Quendi
    Quendi

    @Mary: Ah, my dear, I can remember a WTS magazine article which applied Romans 1:32 to homosexuals saying that they were deserving of death. Then it added the qualifying statement that it was up to God and Christ to carry out any death sentence against them. I can't remember which magazine issue carried the statement, but you can imagine how it made me feel. That is why I wasn't surprised about the most recent comparison of apostates to the slaughtered Baal-worshipers of Jehu's time and the WTS implying that present-day dissidents deserved the same fate. The mindset of this cult has not changed. If its leaders had their way, all of us on this board would be stoned to death and then buried in unmarked graves.

    Quendi

  • Jackals
  • ziddina
    ziddina
    "so why then is he gay?.. was he born gay?..did he ever think he would have been born if he had gay parents?. Its one thing not knowing what is right and its totally something else knowing what is right and not doing it.
    even animals know better when it comes to sexual preferences. ...."

    [face/palm slap...]

    Ah, Bioflex, dude, since you're only 22 years old, and probably home-schooled, let me explain a couple of things to you...

    First of all, nearly ALL homosexuals ARE BORN with the inclination towards homosexuality. That's why they end up as homosexuals...

    A study done of German boys born before, during, and after World War II, showed that the greatest incidence of homosexuality occurred in those born during the period of the highest stress - the war years and the lean years immediately afterwards...

    "For years now we have been researching possible causes of homosexuality, and there are a wide range of theories varying from it is a lifestyle choice, to it is a genetic trait, and everything in between. One theory that has been gaining attention in the field of sexual orientation research is that prenatal stress, stress suffered by the pregnant mother, is a possible cause of homosexuality in males.
    While everyday stressors, like losing your keys or waiting in line at the DMV, are most likely not severe enough to cause a change in the prenatal environment of a fetus, the research into the relationship between prenatal stress and male homosexuality, especially in our furry friends, the laboratory mice, has found a strong correlation between the two.
    Early experiments led by G. Dörner, conducted on rats revealed that homosexual tendencies, sexual arousal by partners of the same sex, was exhibited by male rats who had been exposed to an androgen deficiency during perinatal sexual differentiation of the brain, even though normal to high levels of androgen were present in adult stages. If androgen deficiency is not induced, it can often be found in male rat fetuses and newborns of stressed mothers (Dörner 1983).
    These findings led Dörner to question whether extreme stress experienced by pregnant humans would also lead to homosexuality in their male offspring. So, he studied the frequency of homosexuality in males born in Germany before, during and after World War II. Out of 865 homosexual males studied, significantly more were of them were born between the critical period of the war ("between 1941 and 1947- with a maximum in 1944-1945") than in the years before or after the "critical period" (Dörner 1983). These findings spurred a second study by Dörner, which yielded similar results. In this second study, Dörner used a sample of 100 bi- or homosexual men and 100 heterosexual men. In turn, each was asked about possible stressful life events that took place in his mother's life during her pregnancy with him. The findings were as follows:
    1. "Out of 100 heterosexual males only 6 heterosexuals reported on moderate stressful events that have occurred in their prenatal life, while none of them described severe stressful events in prenatal life, even after consulting their parents.
    2. Out of 40 bisexual men 10 bisexuals (=25%) described moderate and 6 bisexuals (=15%) even severe stressful events that have occurred in prenatal life.
    3. Out of 60 homosexual men 20 homosexuals (=33.3%) reported on moderate and 21 homosexuals (=35%) even on severe stressful events that have occurred during their prenatal life. (Dörner 1983)"
    These findings indicate that there is a correlation between prenatal stress and bi- or homosexuality in males. Dörner acknowledges that errors can be attributed to a restrospective study, such as this one, and prospective studies should be conducted in the future to further supplement his findings. ..."

    http://healthpsych.psy.vanderbilt.edu/2008/PrenatalStress.htm

    Secondly, gay couples are "producing" children, often with a surrogate mother or surrogate father [as in the case of a lesbian couple], so your comment, "did he ever think he would have been born if he had gay parents...?"

    Ahhh.................. YES.......!

    As to your third premise, that animals "know better" than to engage in homosexual sex;....

    Bruddah, apparently you've never been on a farm... Or a ranch...

    As a kid, I watched many a female cow mount another cow in the same manner as a bull. You can see this behavior in dogs, too - male dogs often mount other male dogs. If I remember correctly, even the sheep engaged in homosexual behavior!!

    In fact, there's an excellent book out on the subject of homosexuality among wild animals in nature...

    http://www.amazon.com/Biological-Exuberance-Homosexuality-Diversity-Stonewall/dp/031225377X

    And here's a National Geographic article on the subject...

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

    So much for your erroneous fundamentalist viewpoint...

    Zid the She-Devil

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