The 'in-laws' are Witnesses... Advice Anyone?

by Bells 38 Replies latest members private

  • Quendi
    Quendi

    I have been very interested in this discussion even though it doesn't reflect my own life circumstances. I think the advice that nugget, scully, and ziddina have given is brilliant and the kind of counsel I want to keep in mind. I say this because somewhere down the line I think I will have encounters with Witnesses again. My disfellowshipped status will probably make such encounters very short, but on the chance they get to be extended, it will be good for me to keep the points raised in mind.

    I think the bottom line in these situations is to remember the Golden Rule Jesus gave at Matthew 7:12. Treat others as you would want to be treated. While it's true that few JWs actually practice this, that doesn't mean that we can't. We say that our way of life and thinking is superior to theirs. Encounters like these give us a great opportunity to prove it.

    Quendi

  • Bells
    Bells

    Thanks so much guys. Some great examples and ideas and Lisa, I will definitely use your suggestion, thank you. Everyone has been really kind.

    And don't worry about being blunt Frosty, I hear ya :) Fortunately, he understands this too - and wants to, not just because I want him too. however - are you able to go into more detail to explain as to why and how being raised as a Witness would have emasculated him as a Man? I thought with all the 'Man is the head, Man is in charge, only Men can lead' etc. if anything, then men would have this sense of power and superiority? The more I can understand what he may have gone though, the more I am able help him deal... He likes to pretend that it's all no big deal, growing up and then leaving such a religion, though I know it really is (and he is slowly beginning to come to terms with that himself...)

    Thanks so much :)

  • Bells
    Bells

    ps @ Zid...Any suggestions for good cult books to read???

    Thanks :)

  • Diest
    Diest

    Bells. Combating Cult Mind Control. Steve Hassan

    Buy it used for 3.87 plus 4$ S&H

    http://www.amazon.com/Combatting-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-selling/dp/0892813113/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1317775677&sr=8-1

  • darth frosty
    darth frosty

    OK why frosty believes being a witness emasculates you as a man.

    Well the reason is you are constantly being told to be humble take the secondary place not to think too much of yourself. These things stifle the growth to manhood IMO. Also among these is dating and learning how to act in a rfelationship with a woman. Since they discourage dating till you are ready to marry when the fug will a man learn what it is to interact with women?!?

    Basically the set-up of the organization just does not lead a boy on the path to manhood to really grow learn his stregnth and learn to make his way in life.

  • Adiva
    Adiva

    Just my 2 cents worth but, it occurred to me that if anything every happened and your man needed to be hospitalized, his family may want to step in and make decisions (no blood transfusion). My advice is to make sure you have a Healthcare Power of Attorney so that you, his designee will make the decisions. (Don't know if anyone else brought that up. Apologies if they have.)

    Adiva

  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    Diest - Bells. Combating Cult Mind Control. Steve Hassan

    Hi Bells, welcome to the forum and I wish you the best of luck with your situation. Without repeating what other posters have written, I would recommend that you and your BF read both of Steve Hassan's books (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control" and "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves") to understand how to communicate with cult personalities, and Raymond Franz's books (e.g., "Crisis of Conscience"). Two minds are better than one when dealing with this type of situation. When your in-laws visit you, I would make sure to have all those books in plain sight, encase they might like reading them or you could offer to read those books to your in-laws. If you don't like sleeping in seperate rooms at your in-laws, you could either get formally married or tell your in-laws that you will be staying at a nearby motel/hotel. Your in-laws might change their minds if their son is not allowed to stay with them.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    ABibleStudent

  • ziddina
    ziddina
    "ps @ Zid...Any suggestions for good cult books to read??? ..." Bells

    The books that Diest and ABibleStudent have recommended are excellent, and have become the "Go-to" books, nowadays, regarding cults.

    The Jonestown tragedy occurred on November 18th, 1978. At that time most people had little to no awareness of what cults were and how dangerous they could be... So these books - generally - were written during the first part of the "learning curve" about cults... Our knowledge has advanced somewhat since then. Here are a few books from that EARLIER time period:

    "Cults in America: programmed for paradise" by Willa Appel.

    "Dealing with Destructive Cults" by Una McManus & John C. Cooper.

    "Cults and the Family" by Florence Kaslow & Marvin B. Sussman.

    "Crowds, Groups, and Cults: the role of the cluster instinct in human behavior" by Barbara Ann Martell.

    "Kids in Cults: why they join, why they stay, why they leave" by Irvin Doress & Jack N. Porter. Don't know much about this book...

    "Cults in America" by David Hanna.

    "The Lure of the Cults" by Ronald Enroth. Also, "Youth, Brainwashing, and the Extremist Cults" by Ronald Enroth.

    On the other hand, after the "Branch Davidians", "Heavens Gate", and the Oklahoma City bombings, society and science turned their attention to a more complete understanding of cults. These were written recently, and I have not read them. However, they will represent a more current understanding of the issues and dangers. Here is a list of recent books:

    "Cults, terror, and mind control" by Raphael Aron.

    "Cults and new religions: a brief history" by Douglas E. Cowan & David G. Bromley. This book discusses some of the most extreme cults, like the Unification Church, Scientologists, Heaven's Gate, Branch Davidians - also discusses Wicca and witchcraft. [I'm "heathen", so I might not agree!!]

    "Bounded Choice - True Believers and Charismatic Cults" [electronic book] by Janja Lalich - delves into the social psychology of cults using certain examples.

    "Cults" Jill Karson, editor.

    "Corporate Cults: the insidious lure of the all-consuming organization" by Dave Arnott - also available electronically.

    "Charts of Cults, Sects, & Religious Movements" by H. Wayne House. This author is a professor at Faith Seminary in Tacoma, Washington, but also is an adjunct professor of law at Trinity Law School, Trinity International University. [Whether that's the one in Deerfield, Illinois, or just a web site, I don't know ...]

    "Cults and Abusive Religion" by Frederick Behrle. I could find no information on this man, other than that he has a "Ph.D" - but in WHAT, I couldn't find out... There IS a "Frederick J. Behrle, Ph.D. of psychology in Pitman, New Jersey... Probably the same man...

    "Cults: faith, healing, and coercion" by Marc Galanter, Professor of Psychiatry at the New York University School of Medicine.

    "Comprehending Cults: the sociology of new religious movements" by Lorne L. Dawson. He has a M.A. and Ph.D. from McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, and is Professor of Sociology at University of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.

    "Cults" by Joan D. Barghusen. This is part of a series called "Overview", and takes a look at the histories of various cults. It was apparently generated after the "Branch Davidian" tragedy in Waco, Texas.

    "Counseling Cult-Impacted Students" from "Cults on Campus: Continuing Challenge" - this is an ARTICLE written by Bill Goldberg, a social worker who researches cults. He has a private practice that counsels families of cult members, and works for the Rockland County, New York Department of Mental Health, directing three out-patient programs, and has testified on cult matters before several state legislatures.

    "Unmasking the Cults" by Alan W. Gomes, professor of Historical Theology at the Talbot School of Theology. This author may have a Christian "axe" to grind...

    "Cults and Personality" by Frank J. MacHovec, MA, Ph.D., a retired clinical psychologist who worked 30 years in the field of mental health. This website: http://brainblogger.com/author/fmachovec/ has a series of articles written on the subject of cults and terrorism.

    "Cults and New Religious Movements: a report of the American Psychiatric Association" edited by Marc Galanter. See above - Cults, faith, healing, and coercion...

    "Cults, Converts and Charisma: the sociology of new religious movements" by Thomas Robbins, a sociologist with a B.A. from Harvard and a Ph.D. in sociology from University of North Carolina. This Wikipedia article lists some very interesting titles in his list of authored books... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robbins_(sociologist)

    "Leaving Cults: the dynamics of defection" by Stuart A. Wright, Professor of Sociology and Director of Research at Lamar University, a PUBLIC University located in Beaumont, Texas. [as opposed to a school of Christian theology...]

    Both of these lists were found by searching the public library system centered in the state I live in, Colorado. If you live in the United States, you can request these books through your local library - usually at no cost to you.

    And here is a third list that someone else recommended - sounded excellent to me - from this site: http://www.factnet.org/vbforum/archive/index.php/t-9261.html - the entry by Carie Hagan on July 31st, 2002:

    "Cults in Our Midst" by Margaret Thaler Singer with Janja Lalich

    "Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism" by Robert Jay Lifton

    "The Anatomy of Illusion : Religious Cults and Destructive Persuasion" by Thomas W. Keiser and Jacqueline L. Keiser.

    "Mind-bending : Brainwashing, Cults, and Deprogramming in the 80's" by Lowell D. Streiker.

    "The Manipulated Mind : Brainwashing, Conditioning, and Indoctrination" by Denise Winn.

    "Brainwashing and Other Forms of Mind Control" by Margaret O. Hyde.

    "Brainwashing and the Cults : an exposé on capturing the human mind" by Paul A. Verdier.

    Oh, and here's the website of the "International Cultic Studies Association". You might find this useful, too...

    http://www.icsahome.com/

    Looks like a LOT of reading material!! [eeeeeevil grin!]

    Zid

  • Bells
    Bells

    Thaks again!! :)

    Have ordered a copy of Hassan's Combatting Cult Mind Control...

    Will let you know how it goes with the in-laws... :)

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