The 'in-laws' are Witnesses... Advice Anyone?

by Bells 38 Replies latest members private

• 

  Bells

  Thanks everyone so much. Nugget, you give some great points. And garyneal 'your boyfriend needs to grow a spine' Haha it's funny cos it's true - however I am able to say ha ha instead of whaa whaa because he has actually admitted this also and finally sees that playing the middle man and the peace keeper is not the way to go! It's only taken 12 years, but hey, better late than never :)

  The funny thing is - the bro and his wife actually let us sleep in the same room at their place. They didn't for a while, but I had a bit of a heart to heart with her about beliefs and mutual respect and all that and I said that we are pretty much married in our eyes - and will be in the laws (and God's if you play that game) eyes one day anyway and we are not together as a 'trial thing', and I respect their beliefs and if they allow us to sleep in the same room, I would respect that deeply and give my word we would never have any sex (true!!) Sounds funny, but anyway, we have a more honest and healthy relationship now, and although I see her and her husband give each other 'looks' sometimes when I say something or other, they don't make me feel too uncomfortable and I can pretty much be myself.

  The parents on the other hand, quite different. The funny thing is - they don't really preach to me and don't make any comments to me specific to my beliefs, but sometimes passing comments are made which I feel are a little bit loaded - and I never know how to react to those. I also don't know for sure that they blame me for the son leaving, but it's just a feeling I get and although I may be wrong, I want it cleared up once and for all.

  By the way in regards to the law - I'm in Australia, so in the eyes of the law we are de-facto, pretty much married as far as rights go.

  I like the idea of 'Stumbled' and will think about how I can use that without them thinking I am trying to bee a smart a$$ :)

  Also, I would never be rude in their house, and I do respect their ways in their home, I pray with them for meals etc. I'm just sick of feeling like the second class couple I spose...

  Back to beliefs - can anyone comfirm that they really did pray to Jesus prior to 1950!?

  And don't worry, I would never ever bother getting into a discussion of beliefs with these people - including the false prophecies, the child abuse, the changed doctrines etc. (Although the blood one offends me quite a lot. I needed a blood transfusion as a baby - before I was able to make up my own mind... If my parents were Witnesses, I'd be dead which i think is just so so unfair. If adults want to refuse blood, that's their call, but for kids it's just wrong)
• 

  Retrovirus

  Hi and Welcome, Bells! I'm a fellow non-jw Aussie, with some family and friends in.

  As to past wt beliefs, eg praying to Jesus; the best source I've found is jwfacts.com. There are many beliefs and practices which were once compulsory but now would lead to disfellowshipping!

  Agree with all the advice, but one more thing - are you completely sure your BF is mentally "out"? A jw upbringing messes with people's heads, and a return to totalitarian beliefs is very tempting to some when major things happen in their lives. And if that is ever a possibility, your situation could move from difficult to diabolical.

  Does he understand and agree with your assessment of the wt literature and beliefs? Has he read the Raymond Franz and Steve Hassan books? Another other safeguard is logical thinking and education.

  The "second class" thing is entirely in their heads, and is one of the holds the religion has on them; who would want to give up superior status? Setting boundaries will help you feel better about this. And Scully's suggestion about sparing use of "Stumbled" is brilliant.

  All the best, Retro
• 

  skeeter1

  Carefully consider whether or not your boyfriend is truly out of the cult. It's one thing to not attend, and quite another to be OUT.

  The reason I say this is becuase one of my "born in friends" left the religion to marry a non-JW wifey. He reported that she was the best darn wifey and wonderful gal any guy could get. They had a child and had been married many years. He was disfellowshipped, and dealing with being shunned. So, you think he'd be OUT? Wrong! He reported to me that he was seriously considering rejoining because he saw that 'the World is about to End. The financial mess, the social mess, (blah blah), and the JWs had it the most right." I'm sure he's back in the religion now, and likely dragging his daughter to the Kingdom Hall to be brainwashed. If he's smart, he'll get a divorce and use the WTS booklet to take custody of his daughter. He'll likely make the wife pay him child support (she worked). This poor woman doesn't know what could happen, especially if she fights him. He's programmed to view her as mentally diseased and sided with Satan, to test his new found faithfulness within Jehovah's Organization.

  Imagine the rift it will put in your life and future. So, that's why we say to make sure he is OUT.

  As far as his family considering you unworthy. Yep. My family considers my Brother-in-law to be the reason my sister doesn't completely join the religion. Remember, all worldly people are just bird food at Armegheddon. You are bird food to them, who is making their son into bird food too.

  Skeeter

  p.s. I'm sure you're a lovely person.

  p.s.s. Stay in a hotel near their house.
• 

  NewChapter

  Hi Bells. Well---you COULD lie to them and claim you eloped. LOL Just keep forgetting the marriage certificate.

  But you need to understand, as reasonable as it all sounds, they will NEVER respect your beliefs. Period. You are misled by Satan, and thay will never be okay with them. They aren't like other religions that can show tolerance---only they have the truth and everyone else is inferior. And another thing, they will always look for an opportunity to suck you in. If you experience illness, money problems, a death, they will see it as a possible IN to get you hooked.

  So the pressure will always be there somewhere. Enjoy your boyfriend and try not to stay at their house.

  NC
• 

  Bells

  Thanks guys.

  NC - the 'inferior' thing I get, trust me!!!

  Thanks Retro - I will check out jwfacts some more - it interests me greatly that there were once compulsory practices which would now lead to disfellowshipping! Unbelieveable!

  Skeeter - I hear what you're saying and my heart goes out to the poor wife and child of your born in friend. As to mine, I can be as sure as I ever will be that he's 'out'. He was questioning things long before he met me, though it took him a good few years to 'come out' to his friends and family - as obviously all of them were JW and there was a lot of guilt and fear etc. etc. When he was making the decision as to which path he was taking, I made a real effort not to comment or be overly foreceful in my beliefs. Back then, I didn't know as much about the religion as I do now and therefore probably had a little more respect for it, though other than the 'blood thing' which as I mentioned is pretty personal to me, I didn't have too strong opinions and told him to take whichever path he wanted and I would support him.

  However, once he made his choice that he didn't agree with the Witnesses and we started our life 'this way' and I found out a little more about the whole thing and came to the conclusion that I'm actually pretty against it, I've been honest and explained that he needs to be sure because now that he's chosen this, should he revert back to 'the truth' I will not be able to stand by him and it will be the end of us. I know that sounds pretty harsh, but as a recipient as a blood transfusion as a young child - which saved my life when NO other alternative procedure would, I refuse to have a child and even be in question as to whether I would allow the same thing for them. I also have a problem with their stance on the whole homosexual thing as one of my best best friends is gay and is one of the best, kindest, most loving and giving people you could ever meet. Much kinder than the witnesses that I met once who told me that homosexuality is 'gross, disgusting and a choice - NOT something you're born with (don't even get me started). I would NEVER be able to belong to something that would require me to look down on this friend as an inferior sinner. I'm confortable with my beliefs, morals, values etc. as is and don't need to be in some kind of controlling organisation to make me feel more rightous!

  My bf and I have had many many conversations over the years and I am as confident as I ever will be that he will not return. He really hates a lot about the WT organisation and hated growing up going to meetings every other day and being excluded from parties, school excursions etc. I know his parents thought they were doing the right thing, though I don't think they would realise the kind of anxiety that they placed on him, making him knock on the door of possibly a school friend to discuss something that he really didn't believe in anyway. I know he would never want to put our children through that same anxiety. Also, lately I've been sharing with him a lot of what I've been learning, which he has been open to (and a little shocked as to some of it). I think he is starting to see this organisation as more of a cult than a religion, which he has never had to face before.

  I believe he would have left the religion much earlier if he wasn't so scared of disappointing his parents, who he does have a lot of respect for. He never rebelled and went wild or anything, he just decided at adulthood that it wasn't how he wanted to live his life. Thank God he wasn't baptised though!

  So yeah, I'm pretty sure that he's ok with the path he's chosen and he says he is, but I guess I have to be honest and say it has always been - and will probably always be, a small fear in the back of my head that one day he may wish to return. Literally my very worst nightmare (as in I've had this nightmare several times!! ) He knows it would be the end for us though - and if we had kids I'd do everything I could to keep them from KH! Also - I am definitely not the kind of woman who is able to be 'in subjection to my husband' because the man is the head of the family. I actually believe in equality - I guess I'm a little crazy that way!

  You guys have all been so great Bells
• 

  Quandry

  Welcome to the forum.

  I don't think the WTs ever told their followers to pray to Jesus, just through him.

  I will buck the trend here, as an older person who has been married over forty years, and give you some advice. If you do not marry this man, you may be in for some real problems should he get sick or have an accident and decisions have to be made about his treatment. You may not be considered family, and his JW family could make decisions for him that you may not even agree with, or even bar you from seeing him. There are many legal issues; please look into protecting yourself, and aquainting yourself with current laws. This is important also if there is property that you both hold.

  I agree with the other posters...they won't change...they can't and remain in good standing. Yes, they are always looking at you in a judgemental way, and always assuming that you stand in the way of their son being baptised, and if not an elder, at least a shining example in the congregation. Just know that they can't help it...it is the indoctrination.
• 

  Greybeard

  Hi Bells,

  My opinion is your BF is not spineless. He loves his family and he loves you. Maybe he just wants to love his parents without trying to change them. I am sure he understands he cannot change them. Nobody can as long as they are "Captive To A Concept" Jehovah Witnesses. How many days a year do you spend with them? I would guess it isn't very many. I would ask your BF how he wants you to act and go along with him for these few days. YES it is irritating but how much do you love him? These are his parents not yours. I would think he understands them more than you do. He loves them very much but he loves you way more, that is why he is living with you. You can't change him or his parents. If you try to you will only cause yourself heartache. You need to understand that what his parents think about you doesn't matter. What does matter is what your BF thinks about you and it sounds like he loves you very much!

  This is only my opinion for whatever it's worth,

  Best wishes to you!

  Greybeard
• 

  Bells

  *sigh* I know you're right, they will always judge me.

  We will be getting married eventually, within the next few years and we do have property together - and I'm his next of kin and his beneficiary etc. I really hope he doesn't get sick or need any kind of treatment which may be disputed by the JW family, because I know it would get ugly! We've spoken about this sort of thing in the past and he's confirmed that if something happens and doctors recommend to give him blood, then he wants the blood. It might be worth getting him to express this to them though just to avoid any possible confusion... I know they are strong in their beliefs though I really doubt they would try to override me in this type of situation, though as I've mentioned, they do seem to be getting more 'hard core' into the religion as time goes on, so who knows!
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  Greybeard

  They are not "judging you" because they don't love you. They have been mislead and you can't change them. You can however love them like your BF does by just rolling with the situation. He is respecting and loving his parents even though they are "Captive To A Concept". If you are not married than you both should get a "Power of Attorney" document for whatever might happen. I don't think a parent could stop a blood transfusion at his age if he doesn't have it documented himself. I'm not sure about that. My opinion is this, if you trust your BF and follow his advice when it comes to his parents, he will love you all the more. Remember, it is his parents and he knows them well. My experience is if you try to force people to change when it comes to things like this, you only hurt yourself. It is best to set aside your own ego for the few days you spend with these judgmental people. Focus on what he thinks of you and not what his family think. Let him deal with that. Has he ever tried to change you? I would guess more than likely not. That is a good mate.

  That's my 2cents

  Greybeard
• 

  DesirousOfChange

  I think Nugget and Scully have offered some good advice.

  I agree with that statement. Some of the other advise seems a bit vindictive, and that won't get you anywhere.

  Whatever, whatever, whatever you do.........you won't make any points by arguing their religion. You don't have any credentials to them.

  Be a good person (esp if you are of another Christian faith). JWs don't believe that anyone else can truly be good -- they are all wicked and doomed to destruction. Be the kind of person that makes them wonder HOW can Jehovah destroy Bells???? when she is such a LOVING wonderful girl???

  But do refuse to be treated as a 2nd class couple in separate bedrooms. Stay in a hotel. If you cannot afford it, then make his parents pay since this is because of their restrictions. Or, visit less often. Your BF/SO should say to them that HE will not allow you (and him) to be treated like that. What if YOU for some cockeyed reason didn't want Mom & Dad or BIL & SIL to sleep together in YOUR home?? Would they agree to that. Just say that since YOU won't let US sleep together in YOUR house --- YOU cannot sleep together in OUR house..... See if it makes any sense to them?

  DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT get into all that old nonsense from the 1950s and all that. It means NOTHING to them. The have NEW LIGHT. Just DO NOT discuss religion. You can't win on doctine.

  DOC