The 'in-laws' are Witnesses... Advice Anyone?

by Bells 38 Replies latest members private

• 

  Bells

  Hi,

  I've been lurking for a while here, though this is my first post...

  So, I've recently had a bit of a run in with the in-laws, and will need to go and see them soon to 'talk it out...' However, I'm a bit unsure as to how best to go about it, and how much their religion is going to impact their thoughts and therefore our conversation and interactions going forward...

  In a nutshell: My boyfriend and I have been together for 12 years, (lived together for 10) though are not yet married. We got together in high school. He was raised as a JW, though (thankfully) was never baptised. It's fair to say that it's been the cause of a few issues throughout our relationship. His family have always been friendly enough towards me, though I've never felt totally accepted, and feel like I'm being judged every time I'm around them. They make negative comments about me to my bf, and to their other son - who is in the religion and married to a good JW girl.

  I've always been very respectful to the religion. I've studied a bit with them so I could make an informed decision on my own - which I did - (which is that I think it's a load of BS and would never be involved with any such fear inducing, mind controlling organisation). However, I've never expressed this opinion to that extent; they just know that it’s not for me… I've put up with being made to sleep in different rooms when we visit - for 12 years (!!!) which actually makes me feel like a second class couple, when the bro and wife are always given the same room. I understand the belief and everything, but they have no problem when they need to crash at our 'sinful' home, and they know we're in it for the long haul... And then they get the $hits because we don't visit enough - and blame that on me of course...

  Anyway, recently, as a result of the run in we had, I’ve been doing a bit of research into the religion and have been a bit shocked as to some of the things I’ve found out!! All the changes in blood / organ / antibiotics / vaccines rules, the ‘2 witness’ to a crime rule, the ‘scream if you’re raped’ rule etc. Obviously the child abuse situation and their response to both the victim and the perpetrator. The ‘end of the world’ stuff I was already aware of, and have heard the ‘objection handling’ around these, though it’s only recently that I’ve read the actual texts outlining these events as definite proof. False prophet anyone? I’m at a bit of a loss as to how these reasonably intelligent, kind hearted people, are not able to see through this and are able to belong to a group with such hateful rules! Now I have a bit of a problem, because I'm finding it a lot more difficult to feel overly respectful, especially when I have copped so much from various Witnesses over the years...

  Anyway - that’s their belief and that’s fine. My dilemma: I’m going to be with this guy for the rest of my life, his family are important to him and vice versa, though unfortunately, they see me more as someone that they have to see if they want to see him… How do I be assertive to them and let them know that they need to respect MY beliefs for once, without saying anything which is going to totally pi$$ them off and make them think that I am influenced by Satan or something…

  I’ve already told my bf that he needs to tell them explicitly that leaving the religion was totally his decision and I didn’t influence him one bit, which he’s agreed to, though to be honest I think they will always hold me in some part responsible… I know that everyone is different and just because they are Witnesses they are going to behave in a certain way - and they aren't as extreme as some, though do seem to be getting more involved and insulated from 'the world' as time goes by. How can I get my point across, and what sort of things should I simply avoid..?

  Also – is it really true that until 1950, Witnesses were instructed to pray to Jesus – which is now a disfellowshipping offence!!??

  And one other thing – to me, it seems clear that this organisation meets the requirements of ‘cult’ though I’m at a bit of a loss to see what the point is. I figure there’s got to be money involved, though can’t seem to find out too much about that, though bf reckons that it’s just that people get off on feeling spiritually superior. What’s the deal?

  Any advice would be greatly appreciated, I've seen a great deal of concise, informed and articulate posts here - I'm hoping someone might have something to offer!!! :)

  Thanks!
• 

  Bells

  Whoops, I do realise I've posted this in totally the wrong section and do apoligise - if anyone can tell me how to delete or move, I will.

  Obviously not a frequent forum-er :)

  moved to Private Discussion & Support ~ Scully
• 

  nugget

  You have several problems here some you can do something about and some you can't. On the plus side your boyfriend has been with you for over 12 years and is not intending to return to the religion. He has been determined to go his own way and hasn't succumbed to pressure.

  His parents absolutely will not make any compromise nor will they try to see your point of view. You are worldly and therefore your opinion just simply does not count. You are right that it is your boyfriend that needs to set the groundrules since they may listen to him when they will not listen to you.

  If they insist you sleep in seperate rooms then they will not change as JWs they cannot be seen to be condoning fornication and immorality. Their status in the congregation would be in jeopardy if it were known you were permitted to sleep together. His brother would happily dob them in it is the JW way. What I would be inclined to do is stay in a local hotel when you visit, your boyfriend should tell his parents that he understands their point of view and so as not to offend them or get them into any trouble you will stay elsewhere since you are important to him and as a couple you prefer to be together.

  Without knowing the nature of the falling out it is difficult to be specific. What is a useful approach when walking into a conflict is find the areas that you can agree and use them to gain leverage on the issues you can't.

  start by saying some like:

  I felt we had to have a chat after what happened the other day. We have known each other for so long and in that time I have come to respect you and am sorry that this has happened between us.

  Then mention the issue of contention e.g.

  It really hurt my feelings when you said blah blah blah. Unfortunately it caught me off guard and as a result I expressed myself more forcefully than I would have preferred . If I hurt your feelings then I am sorry I did not want you to feel bad but I did want you to understand my point of view.

  I appreciate your religion is important to you but although I have tried to understand it I know that I could never embrace it. As this could so easily become an issue of contention it would be best if we tried to keep religion out of our visits.

  Your boyfriend needs to reinforce what ever message telling his parents that he loves and respects them but stating his your point of view clearly and distinctly. Make sure he reminds them that the decision to leave is his decision and that he made the decisions that shape his life you are an innocent bystander in all of this. He needs to be sure that he talks about you positively to reinforce that you are important to him.

  You need to be aware that you will always be second class to them and you both will never be as important as the other faithful son and his wife. You need to determine how many visits you can take and the groundrules you need to establish.

  when they express their point of view you can mirror back what they say to indicate you were listening e.g. I was offended by your attitude I found it rude. can be mirrored back "I am sorry to you were offended". This acknowledges how they felt without accepting blame.

  Best of luck with this JW relatives are hard to get if you have never been involved in the faith.
• 

  DarioKehl

  Lay down the law or run like hell. And by run like hell, shun THEM first! Because they'll do it to you eventually. It's not a real or healthy relationship if one party is "all send, no receive." That's a toxic environment. If your kindess and tact is unable to change this, then it's a toxic relationship and needs to be purged.

  Good luck!
• 

  Honesty

  If you want the in-laws out of your life just ask them if any one of the 144,000 in the last 30 years were nonJW when they were anointed with the active force 'holy spirit.'

  That should get you shunned for the rest of your life & may revive your BF's critical thinking skills.
• 

  ScenicViewer

  @ Bells, Regarding your remark, "False prophet anyone? I’m at a bit of a loss as to how these reasonably intelligent, kind hearted people, are not able to see through this..."

  Sadly, most JWs are terribly misinformed about their past beliefs and predictions, and it's by design. The Watchtower organization is very skilled at controlling information.

  In response to accusations of false prophecy, you often hear JWs say things that are completely false, such as...

  --Oh, that's just what some thought. (This suggests the false prediction wasn't believed by all, just by a few, and you certainly can't blame the organization for what some did.)

  --That was just a misunderstanding. (Yes, but what false prophet doesn't have a misunderstanding? The difference between an innocent misunderstanding, and a fals prophet's misunderstanding, is that a false prophet publishes his to others. The Watchtower has published many misunderstandings as firm predictions, as you are learning.)

  --Oh that's not right. Opposers just make that stuff up to make us look bad. (No one's making it up.)

  Very few JWs actually have any idea what the organization really said in the past. When they hear accusations of false prophecy they simply repeat the remarks they have heard other Witnesses say.
• 

  lisaBObeesa

  I agree with all nugget said. Spot on, all of it.

  They really will not change, and that is that. All you can do is manage the situation.

  However, you can use their identity as 'God's one true people'...'good people' ....'Christians who do everything right and could never be rude or hurtful' ...on them.

  They would never want to give you a bad idea about JWs and only want to give good ideas about JWs.

  A radical idea?

  Tell them that you don't believe in some of the things that their religion teaches, but WOW! They are such wonderful, kind, thoughtful and loving people! (yes, I;m saying to lie...a bit...) Just lay it on. So KIND! So LOVING to you even though you are not a JW! How they are SO RESPECTFUL OF YOUR BELIEFS even though they are different than theirs! What a wonderful example of CHRISTIANS they are!! ...blah blah blah. They will of course agree about how wonderful they are and they will strive to be ever so MORE wonderful to you in the future...hoping to pull you in. (now you don't want to encourage them to actually preach to you, so this is a fine line to walk).

  A little manipulative...yes. but it could make things smoother for you...if you could stomach it...

  I would never, ever bring up any of the stuff about child abuse, or false prophets or any of that.

  You have to survive with them as your family for a long time and bringing that stuff up will destroy what little relationship you have...
• 

  chaveiromeninodorio

  I would like to ask you a question : Living together , you go against any law of your country? Is there any law that requires you to legalize marriage for you? If not, ask your husband 's parents , where the Bible compels you to legalize the union . Along with that question , you ask them to explain why the union of Isaac and Rebekah , was not condemned by God through the Bible. Thus, their thinking can be stimulated.
• 

  Scully

  The easy answer to the bedroom dilemma would be: elope. But clearly you and BF are satisfied with the way your relationship is or perhaps feel that a legal document or ceremony is not necessary to validate your status as a couple.

  I would stop making overnight visits to his parents' home. Clearly, it makes everyone uncomfortable - they don't want to be seen as "condoning" sexual relations outside of marriage, and you and your boyfriend don't want to be treated as though your relationship is not as solid or meaningful without that legal document / ceremony. I think staying in a nearby hotel is a reasonable alternative, and it gives you a place to exit to if things become difficult or awkward.

  At the same time, continue extending hospitality to them in your home. Your turf, your rules: you get to decide the sleeping arrangements. If his father wants to pray at meal times in your home, he can certainly do so, but privately, because you find their wishing for Jehovah's will to be done (destroying 99.9% of all humankind at Armageddon™ so that JWs can take over the world) is offensive to your own beliefs (whatever they may be). In his own home, he can pray aloud at his own table and you will respect the principle of "Your Turf, Your Rules". They will not preach to you in your home. If they start preaching in their home, you have the option to leave.

  One of the great things about being an outsider or a Worldly Person™, is that you get to express your offense in a way that will stop them dead in their tracks. The terminology to use is Stumbled™. (BTW, I use the ™ to indicate JW jargon.)

  For instance, you know they've made negative comments about you to your BIL and your BF, about you being the reason your BF is not a JW. Witnesses are not supposed to engage in malicious gossip about others. When you decide to confront them about that, you can say something like "I don't know why you think BF can't make a decision like that on his own. I'm Stumbled™ that you would blame me for a choice he made voluntarily."

  or "I'm Stumbled™ by the fact that you think it's okay to put the blame on me for your son leaving your church. Frankly, I can't see how I would ever want to belong to your church knowing that you consider me to be a negative influence and bad mouth me to other Witnesses. What a horrible thing to do to someone."

  When you use Stumbled™ in the context of their behaviour toward you being the reason why you'd never become a JW yourself, it will cut them to the core of their being and they will feel so guilt-ridden for Bringing Reproach on Jehovah™. It may not last for very long, but that's something you can keep in your back pocket - both you and your BF. As a matter of fact, your BF should be getting on their case too: "Bells is Stumbled™ by the way you disrespect her" or "Bells is Stumbled™ by the way you gossip about her to BIL" or "Bells is Stumbled™ by the fact that you blame her for me leaving the JWs".

  I hate to be the one to break it to you, but as far as JWs are concerned, any beliefs that originate outside of the Watchtower Society are considered to originate with Satan, including whatever it is you believe in (even if you are Christian, and especially if you are atheist). My best suggestion is that the topic of religion be off-limits when you visit with them - do not bring it up yourself and find a way to gracefully change the subject when they do; and to make your home a safe haven for you where you do not have to endure being preached at or criticized by them when you graciously offer them hospitality. Despite my JW upbringing, I was taught that it is the height of rudeness to criticize your host or hostess while you are a guest in their home (remember: Your Turf, Your Rules). Perhaps that can be something you and your BF's parents can see as being a reasonable middle-ground.

  I would definitely try the more subtle approach first: make a point to not bring up their beliefs, because they will feel that they have to defend themselves; and secondly find some ways to redirect the conversation if they turn it to religion. If that doesn't work, then you'll need to excuse yourself - tidy the kitchen or go outside for some fresh air or make an emergency trip to the store for "feminine supplies".
• 

  garyneal

  Whew, all I have to say is, I feel for you.

  Some good advice all around. Frankly, I was going to tell you that your BF needs to grow a spine and deal with his JW family shunning you like this. However, I think Nugget and Scully have offered some good advice. Only you can decide how much of this you are willing to endure.