What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne 233 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Simon
    Simon

    Radicalism is simply something that goes against established wisdom when that wisdom is not based on evidence.

    Every religious belief is radical. Some eventually become widely believed and accepted - like a mass indoctrination.

    We view scientologists as having "crazy" radical beliefs but they are no more unbelievable than mainstream Christian beliefs - they just haven't been repeated and learnt by rote by a sufficient number of people over a long enough time that they are no longer accepted as abnormal.

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette
    be·lief
    bəˈlēf/

    noun: belief; plural noun: beliefs

    1. an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
      "his belief in the value of hard work"
      • something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.
        "contrary to popular belief, Aramaic is a living language"
      synonyms:
      opinion, view, conviction, judgment, thinking, way of thinking, idea, impression, theory, conclusion, notion
      "it's my belief that age is irrelevant"
    2. a religious conviction.
      "Christian beliefs"
      synonyms :ideology, principle, ethic, tenet, canon; More
      doctrine, teaching, dogma, article of faith, creed, credo
      "traditional beliefs"
    3. trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.
      "a belief in democratic politics"
      synonyms:faith, trust, reliance, confidence, credence
      "belief in the value of hard work"
  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    Note in the above definitions, it is not a requirement that something be TRUE for it to be a belief, only that an individual accepts it as such.

    Words have meaning based on context.

    In communication, it is the obligation of the originator of a message to ensure that they say what they mean. They should also be sure that their message is worded clearly and in a form understandable by the person(s) they are communicating to. Most people are not very good at this.

    It is also the obligation of the receiver of a message to try to, in good faith, understand what the communicator is trying to say. Most people are also not very good at this.

    When you consider these facts, it's amazing that we ever get anything straight.

  • Viviane
    Viviane
    Agreed. So do you.

    Which is exactly why I have only ever spoken for myself.

    That tells me that you have an agenda, a mission to accomplish

    And you said you were only going to speak for yourself. Shame on you!

    Please don't assume (as you have done so wrongly so many times on this thread) to presume to know what I think or what my agenda is. (BTW, even though you claim to have an agenda, simply by starting a topic you clearly do have one. If you think that is untrue, look up the word "agenda").

    Not at all. First, turns out that the person who asked did it as a personal insult.

    Again, you're assuming you know what I mean. I stated a fact that had nothing in particular to do with what you perceive as a personal attack.

    I was specifically thinking of when you wrote something to mean and, when it turned out what you wrote wasn't quite what you meant, you responded with "that's not what I meant".

    You absolutely are asking people to assume what you mean. You're refusing to define what you mean, you're being vague and speaking for others. Seriously, how did you think trying to have a conversation like that would go?

    No true Scotsman fallacy. We are debating and I have clearly told my ideas.

    Clearly you don't know what the No True Scotsman fallacy actually is. As Mr. Drake pointed out earlier, you've already made the Fallacy fallacy and now you are doing it again. I said you've not been clear. You haven't. You've been vague and gotten upset when you were asked to be clear.

    Until you are and we can all figure out what you are actually saying rather than just being contrary and illogical, no real debate can happen on your idea. It's not a fallacy to say something can't happen until conditions are satisfactory for that thing to occur.

    So now you're learning how to have a discussion. Step 1, if you have an idea you want to discuss, think it through and then clearly state what it is you want to discuss along with the parameters of the discussion.

    Do I have to take a Master’s degree before I can start debating any of my ideas? If I had set myself up to teach others, you might rightfully accuse me of lack of preparedness.

    I correctly point out your complete unpreparedness to discuss this topic now. If you feel you need a Master's degree to discuss this with me on equal footing, feel free to go get one.

    But this is a public forum, not the academia, and you’re no Bertrand Russell either.

    I never claimed to be. Do you have a point here other than saying I am not a dead person?

    Like I said before, I’m here to learn, but not to be lectured.

    You're free to start learning anytime. Sometimes it even involves a lecture.

    Your resort to inflammatory, derogatory language and minimization gets tiring, but I think you do it by design, so I won’t reply to you in the same fashion. All I can say is that you’re an expert in Strawman, Red Herring, Declare Victory, Reductio ad Absurdum, use of sarcasm and patronizing techniques in debate. I really can’t compete. You win – because no other result is admissible in your way of debating.

    Well, you got one thing right in that entire screed.

    Don't take that to mean you are unable to compete. You are clearly intelligent, but you are also clearly not prepared to debate and are letting your emotions get involved in the discussion of your ideas. You need to be able to look at your idea objectively without emotion in it and discuss and evaluate it purely on merit. You need practice in developing and writing clear points, defining the parameters of a discussion and defining exactly what you mean.

    You've clearly the ability, but no experience. You can get that here if you don't let your emotions get in the way.

  • Brokeback Watchtower
    Brokeback Watchtower

    The word belief has several meanings depending on context. If we are a predominately black and white thinker then it can only have one or two meanings at most because shades of gray are confusing to a b&w type.

    So get those neurons firing and form new circuits connections by letting go of one size fits all black and white either this or that with no inbetweenness allowed thinking.

  • Ruby456
    Ruby456
    simon I was thinking of the radicalism of the 18th and 19th centuries when it was to do with radical ideas, principles and social life rather than with religion. An example is Charles Dickens' radicalism. another example of an individual with radical ideas was Thomas Carlyle
  • Simon
    Simon
    Note in the above definitions, it is not a requirement that something be TRUE for it to be a belief, only that an individual accepts it as such.

    Yes, I was trying to point out that there are different meanings but the theists intentionally try to conflate them.

    I think they do it because they are so familiar with reverse and circular reasoning (e.g. "the bible is true and the word of god because it says it is ... and it must be true because it is the word of god!") that they are unable to see that it doesn't constitute evidence.

    They think that their belief becomes the 'evidence' for the thing that they believe in. "God must exist because so many people believe in him!".

    It obviously isn't evidence so their belief is of the "blind faith" variety. They should not get to utter the word and compare it to belief in fact-based evidence-laden realities.

    The OP is deliberately unclear. For instance, do we "believe in the pope"? We believe the pope exists as a person and as a head of an organization ... but we don't believe the pope is some divine representative of an imaginary super-being.

    Clear language is important. Theists don't like using it because it makes it easy to shred their beliefs and show they are not based on evidence, they are just instances of blind faith.

    By all means have blind faith, Just don't pretend it's any form of rational thinking.

  • Simon
    Simon
    simon I was thinking of the radicalism of the 18th and 19th centuries when it was to do with radical ideas, principles and social life rather than with religion.

    Yes, people had radical ideas but those were based on new evidence, research and facts - the age of learning and discovery.

    It's completely different to radicalism when it comes to religion - there are no new facts, just a new invented story or interpretation. There is no right or accurate version. Star Wars is just as legitimate to believe as Jesus. They are just stories.

  • freemindfade
    freemindfade
    Edenone I get your OP. Regardless of the translation though it's meaning is context based and situational. For witnesses it's an absolute black and white tool. I have found recently my frustration with people asking me "what do you believe then"? I have grown to hate it. Because before I thought black and white now I realize belief is never 100% I guess it's kinda like myth butsters to me. Confirmed. Busted. Or plausible. The reality is most things in our life fall under plausible. Lack of belief in god is not a claim that there is NO god. This is where people can't understand atheists.
  • nicolaou
    nicolaou
    Lack of belief in god is not a claim that there is NO god. This is where people can't understand atheists.

    We need to repeat this over and over and over and . . .

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