What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne 233 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  EdenOne

  Simon: The OP is deliberately unclear.

  The OP was asking for a clarification, that's why it was a question. What exactly are we talking about when we talk about belief? And what exactly are we talking about in the definition of atheism as "lack of belief in deities"? And how is that related to the common claim that such lack of belief stems from "lack of evidence"?

  As the debate went on, I expressed some of my ideas and perplexities, and received a big backlash because I don't yield just because X and Y say so. It's not a fair critique to say i was deliberately unclear.

  Eden
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  Xanthippe

  No Oub both statements are about belief, neither are about knowledge. Sorry, going to watch Horizon now- astronomy programme.
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  EdenOne

  Jonathan Drake,

  You're not making sense to ME. I didn't attempt to define God, nor rationalize God. Viviane kept challenging me to do it, as if I was a theist. That's like trying to make a water spring produce ginger ale. And that's why it was upsetting me, because I can't see the point in doing so.

  Eden
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  EdenOne

  Atheism is a position about belief, while agnosticism is a position about knowledge.

  Eden
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  talesin

  Well, I see this thread is mostly semantics, with little substance.

  Interesting, thought, your last comment Eden

  
  Atheism is a position about belief, while agnosticism is a position about knowledge.

  Actually, it's exactly the opposite.

  Atheists see the LACK OF KNOWLEDGE about any deity .. Believers and agnostics see a POSSIBIITY OF BELIEF.

  Thanks for setting that straight.

  tal :sunglasses:
• 

  Oubliette

  Xanthippe: No Oub both statements are about belief, neither are about knowledge. Sorry, going to watch Horizon now- astronomy programme.

  I guess you missed my point about neither statement needing to be true or accurate.

  Enjoy your tv show!
  
• 

  EdenOne

  Talesin: Actually, it's exactly the opposite.

  Well, are you sure you got your facts right?

  "By now, the difference between being an atheist and being an agnostic should be pretty clear and pretty easy to remember. Atheism is about belief, or specifically what you don't believe. Agnosticism is about knowledge, or specifically about what you don't know. An atheist doesn't believe in any gods. An agnostic doesn't know if any gods exist or not. These can be the exact same person, but need not be."

  Extracted from atheism.about.com

  .. you're welcome.
  

  Eden
  
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  Jonathan Drake

  Okay Eden, but your definition of God doesn't even have to be complex.

  Are you talking monotheism or polytheism?

  jusr answering this one question will allow a real discussion. I'm not sure if anyone asked you this yet.
• 

  Viviane

  How am I supposed to define a deity which I don't believe in?

  Beats me. But, until you can, you can't possibly hope to demonstrate your claim that lack of evidence leads to lack of knowledge because can't even define for us the very thing you claim we lack evidence for.

  That's why, when you repeatedly asked me to define a deity, the best I could do was to give you some common traits of deities that are worshipped by a large percentage of the world's population.

  Contradictory traits at that which by no means defines the thing in question.
  
  

  I can't be any clearer than that

  Then you can't possibly hope to rest your argument on such a profound lack of foundation.

  Do you go around asking atheists: "define me god?"

  First, I would ask a question that makes sense and is an actual question. Second, why would think I would go around asking atheists to define god for me? They lack belief in any deity so it's a nonsensical thing to think I would do.
  
  
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  Viviane

  Atheism is a position about belief, while agnosticism is a position about knowledge.

  As usual, you demonstrate you understand neither.

  Extracted from atheism.about.com
  .. you're welcome.

  And you're back to trying to speak for other people even though you said you wouldn't. Both concept cover a wide variety of positions, you cannot hide your bad logic, platitudes, mistaken ideas and incorrect statements about others behind a blurb from a website that caters to your own misunderstanding by committing one of it's own, specifically that of conflating multiple ideas and a variety of concepts under a single phrase which gets none of them right.

  Thank you for posting that, it aptly demonstrates the need to be clear in debate that I was mentioning to your earlier in the learning session.