by FreeAtLast1914 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
The reason I ask is that I have a coupe of cousins who are still JWs who have gone gambling in casinos with us. I have a brother-in-law who openly brags about his "perfect" Blackjack strategy he employs in Vegas when he's in town.
I know that growing up as a JW, gambling of any kind was a DFing offense.
Is my JW family simply more liberal than most, or has there been a subtle shift in this area since I've been out?
Not a conscience matter; I'm sure they are careful who they tell and keep themselves in a pocket of deniability.
I once observed some brothers playing penny ante poker at a jw "get-together" at someone's home. The elders we approached said they would not nitpick about a low stakes game as long as it was not advertised, as they looked at us telling us that they would deal with us if we "gossiped" about it.
In other words Blondie
"go somewhere, sit your ass down, and keep your mouth shut.........woman. When we want your opinion on something, we'll give it to you!"
There's a comment somewhere in the new elders' manual, something about how the elders shouldn't get involved in "petty" gambling between JWs so long as they aren't "promoting" it.
I.e. as usual, things are quite vague and open to interpretation. This protects the Society, who can say in virtually any situation "but we never said to do that!"
However, it does seem to indicate a somewhat softened stance. As you noted, in years past even betting a penny would be considered a "serious sin" worthy of a judicial committee.
My best guess is that some mid- to high-level Bethelites enjoy filling in Super Bowl squares and/or NCAA basketball brackets. So long as they keep it quiet, and the stakes aren't too high, it seems they won't get tossed out of Bethel for it.
JW`s have been gambling for as long as I can remember..
As long as they didn`t talk about it..It`s no big deal..
......................;-)...OUTLAW
I just checked the 2010 Elder's Manual Shepherd the Flock of God. It states on page 72: " Christians should avoid gambling in all its various forms, including lotteries. ([sa. 65:11; g02 7/22 pp. 4-8; w89 7/15 p. 30; g82 7/8 pp. 25-27; g81 11 p. If a person makes a practice of gambling and after repeated counsel unrepentantly pursues a course of greediness, judicial action would be appropriate."
Again, I see no room for allowing even small-stakes gambling among JWs. Can anyone cite a reference or is it merely an unwritten "understanding" among this generation of JWs?
As I said above it is an unwritten understanding and varies from congregation to congregation, depending on the BOE (usually one or more a low-stakes gambler; I knew an elder that went to Vegas every year and said it was no different than going to Disney).
I once observed some brothers playing penny ante poker at a jw "get-together" at someone's home. The elders we approached said they would not nitpick about a low stakes game as long as it was not advertised, as they looked at us telling us that they would deal with us if we "gossiped" about it.
When I was a MS I was given a lotto ticket with a meal deal at McD...I threw it in my car's glove compartment...when I found it again I checked the number on-line to find that I had won $50k! I did some research in the WT publications and found out accepting the prize money from a free ticket was the same as accepting stolen diamonds as a gift...both having been acquired from an activity God disapproves...I almost tore up the ticket. Then I realized that the WT allows us to accept blood fractions which are acquired from an activity God disapproves: BLOOD DONATION! So I claimed the prize and kept the whole thing undercover...my JW wife had no problem keeping the secret...but now I am out and I told my children about my good luck!
The "makes a practice" phrase is the loophole.
If you go to Vegas once for a vacation, then it "becomes known" and you're asked about it by the elders you can say it was a one-time occurrence. If you buy a lottery ticket every week and it "becomes known" and you're asked about it by the elders, you better stop or they can DF you.
Gambling isn't the DFing offense, "making a practice of" gambling is.
Here is another, more lenient point of view, from.... the 2010 Elder's manual!
(Shepherd the Flock of God, p70) (Note, that's page 70 of the book, not of the PDF download, which includes the cover and more as pages.)
“The elders do well not to involve themselves in what individuals do with regard to petty gambling solely for entertainment. They may need to give counsel if this becomes a cause of stumbling for others or affects the spirituality of the individual or the congregation.”
So, isn't the acceptance of "petty gambling solely for entertainment" a new point of view? I remember when penny ante games were taboo.
Then comes the problem of drawing a line between what is petty gambling and what isn't.
